noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?

[noblegiraffe]

I'm sure my username in the title will be a red rag to a bull but anyway, if it's there it can't be denied any more. As you'll be aware if you've spent much time on this section, I post regularly about the situation in schools, particularly secondary schools (my patch). Secondary school children are the most infected subset of the population and lack of mitigation measures in schools is causing chaos. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

I have consistently argued for improving mitigation measures in schools in order to reduce transmission, keep schools open for more pupils and to make them safer for teachers, school staff, and vulnerable pupils.

On these threads I have been routinely abused. I've my mental health called into question, my suitability as a teacher, whether I am harming my pupils by being concerned about school safety. I've been questioned as to whether I'm actually a teacher, whether I work for a union or have some secret agenda (aside from my openly stated one to widen awareness of the school situation and my desire for improved safety). The constant refrain has been that I want schools closed. Firstly I was openly told that I wanted schools closed, then that I secretly wanted schools closed. The data I was posting was so bad that it must be a stealth campaign to close schools. That making schools safer is impossible (such a can't-do attitude) so arguing to make them safer is an argument to close them.

And now, there's just this lie constantly posted that there's a massive campaign on MN to close schools. Posts on threads about a 'vocal poster' (i.e. me) who is constantly arguing for this, with an 'echo chamber' of teachers agreeing. It's horseshit.

I think there's a group of posters who see this as a bit of fun. Posting crap and winding up teachers is some sort of weird hobby for them. They have no skin in the game.

But this isn't a game. It's not a hypothetical argument. It's a genuine health and safety issue. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it. Fellow teachers on here are catching it. One had to be blue-lighted to hospital. Teachers and school workers are in intensive care or sadly dying. We don't know how many, because this data isn't being published. We don't know how many teachers are off school, because the DfE have deliberately stopped publishing that data.

The situation in schools is not safe. It can be made safer. If you think 'but my school is safe, we've had no/few cases', then please be aware of how quickly things can change, and maybe getting preventative measures in beforehand might be desirable.

My top wish list is:

Mass testing in schools. Particularly when there is a positive case the whole bubble should be tested, to enable effective and targeted isolation and to flush out asymptomatic cases.

Scrapping the policy of only sending home close contacts. It's not working. Relying on children with covid to display the three main adult symptoms is pathetically unreliable as a way of identifying cases and isolating at-risk students. Testing should replace this.

Masks in secondary classrooms (with obvious exemptions and workarounds where needed. This is managed internationally, why should we not be able to?).

Funding for schools to improve ventilation where inadequate and for extra heating to keep the windows open.

No fines for ECV families.

Transparency around schools data, regularly published so the government can be held properly to account.

I don't want schools to close. I want them to be made safer so that they stay open longer to more pupils. If you agree with the premise, parent or teacher, even if you have a different wish list of how to achieve this, please post in support.

Thank you.

Individual schools shouldn't be expected to go against government guidance in order to implement fairly simple safety measures.

Where are all these teachers making excuses about why they don't want to wear masks?

I've seen posts from teachers saying that they're a bit uncomfortable, but definitely more from teachers who would like to wear one but aren't permitted to.

The anti-mask brigade do not, as a whole, have much of a grasp on reality imvhe.

noblegiraffe
What Clav has done is come onto this thread about school safety and talked about teachers wearing masks because she thinks that teachers wouldn't want to do that.

I can't believe you have started so many threads about school safety when you are not prepared to wear a mask at school yourself unless your pupils wear one as well.

Teachers shouldn't need to be lobbying anyone to have access to the basic covid mitigation safety measures that every other workplace has.

If you think teachers should be lobbying Clav, it does sound as though you're in agreement that schools should be made safer.

You should lobby your local council - MidLothian Council stepped in with recommendations. Do your colleagues want to wear masks?

Or better still, Clav, the government could have put this in their guidance to start with because then, even the schools not under council control could have implemented masks much sooner and got into better habits sooner.
And there you go again, putting it down to teachers not wanting to wear masks. It’s obvious some do and some don’t but the government guidance (especially the guidance before the late October re-write) would have helped with this.

If you think the threads about school safety aren't important/interesting/relevant Clav you don't have to post on them.

cantkeepawayforever
Yes to the latter. Academy, is my answer to the first - and a standalone one at that.

Seems easier to me to lobby at a local level first even if your school is an Academy.

@Clavinova

noblegiraffe What Clav has done is come onto this thread about school safety and talked about teachers wearing masks because she thinks that teachers wouldn't want to do that.

I can't believe you have started so many threads about school safety when you are not prepared to wear a mask at school yourself unless your pupils wear one as well.

Where has noble said that she doesn’t wear a mask where she can or that she wouldn’t? (Sorry noble I know you can speak for yourself)

Covid is a national problem that requires national strategies.

It's a shame that in the UK we don't have any sort of central department to create guidelines and protocols for the health and safety of all schools.

Oh, hang on a minute.

I can't believe you have started so many threads about school safety when you are not prepared to wear a mask at school yourself unless your pupils wear one as well.

Clutching at straws here Clav. You agree that the government guidance stating that masks in classrooms (for students or teachers) should be avoided is wrong and that this should be changed in order to improve safety.

Which is a bit off-brand for you but quite heartening.

@Clavinova

cantkeepawayforever Yes to the latter. Academy, is my answer to the first - and a standalone one at that.

Seems easier to me to lobby at a local level first even if your school is an Academy.

Pretty pointless as the Academy doesn’t have to follow what the council says.

I did lobby to my MP which was pretty risky as I actually teach their child.
Just like the emails I send when their child has missed multiple homework tasks, this too has gone unanswered currently.

@Clavinova

cantkeepawayforever Yes to the latter. Academy, is my answer to the first - and a standalone one at that.

Seems easier to me to lobby at a local level first even if your school is an Academy.

I have tried. The 'local level' is, in a stand-alone academy, the school. And nobody else, as the next level of governance is the Secretary of State...... who I have contacted, via my MP.

Arguing from the particular to the general, Clav? Oh dear.

ChloeDecker
Where has noble said that she doesn’t wear a mask where she can or that she wouldn’t?

She indicated that she wouldn't wear at mask at school unless the pupils in her class wore masks as well - that seems odd to me when she has started so many posts on school safety - I would have thought she would be the first person to wear a mask;

"I think if we’re going the mask route, the 30 other people in the room I spend the most time with should be wearing one too."

so many posts
so many threads

Do you read that as noble indicating that she doesn't/wouldn't wear a mask at school?

That's interesting. I read it as noble saying if we're going to acknowledge that masks should be mandatory, they should be mandatory for everyone in a particular setting.

@Clavinova

So because someone once said something on telly about nurses, that means infections can’t happen in classrooms?

No - I didn't say that - but I can see teachers making excuses why they shouldn't have to wear a mask. Does noblegiraffe wear a mask at school? I hope she does.

Jeeze, Clavinova. How many times? No teacher I know is allowed to wear a mask in their classrooms. It was made very clear that the govt didn't want that, and although they unwillingly said that heads could make their own decision, they made it very clear to heads that they wouldn't approve if they allowed it. And when schools are so dependent on OFSTED and govt approval, it takes a brave head to go against them.

This is brilliant. I am loving watch Clav tie herself in knots to try to avoid acknowledging that the DfE guidance is wrong.

Pretty pointless as the Academy doesn’t have to follow what the council says.

They don't have to follow advice from the local council but they might - you've probably got more chance with the local council than Mumsnet!

@Clavinova

ChloeDecker Where has noble said that she doesn’t wear a mask where she can or that she wouldn’t?

She indicated that she wouldn't wear at mask at school unless the pupils in her class wore masks as well - that seems odd to me when she has started so many posts on school safety - I would have thought she would be the first person to wear a mask;

"I think if we’re going the mask route, the 30 other people in the room I spend the most time with should be wearing one too."

Your reading comprehension is pretty poor, Clavinova. The sentence you've quoted doesn't remotely say what you think it does.

Jeeze, Clavinova. How many times? No teacher I know is allowed to wear a mask in their classrooms.

Several teachers on these threads do.

@Clavinova

Walkaround do you include primary school teachers in this? Should they wear masks in the classroom and not just everywhere else in the school?

Probably - perhaps not reception/year 1.

borntobequiet
I said I didn’t understand how teachers could be infecting each other as they didn’t spend time with each other in staff rooms etc. This was countered by evidence from a different country - where presumably staffrooms are open - saying staff pass the virus on in such places.

Quite clearly some staffrooms and/or workrooms are open even if capacity is reduced - I've read at least half a dozen previous posts confirming this including one today.

cantkeepawayforever
I am NOT ALLOWED to wear a mask at school (primary). Totally forbidden by SLT. I have lobbied hard, but no.

You should lobby your local council - MidLothian Council stepped in with recommendations. Do your colleagues want to wear masks?

@Clavinova - why do you think teachers should only probably wear masks in classrooms at primary school, and why exempt year 1 and year R, when those years in particular normally have more than one adult in them at all times, and adults in primary schools have no distancing from the majority of the children, because you really cannot teach young children from 2m away? Is this the same logic that prompted the DfE to indicate its strict disapproval of mask wearing in classrooms?

@Clavinova

ChloeDecker Where has noble said that she doesn’t wear a mask where she can or that she wouldn’t?

She indicated that she wouldn't wear at mask at school unless the pupils in her class wore masks as well - that seems odd to me when she has started so many posts on school safety - I would have thought she would be the first person to wear a mask;

"I think if we’re going the mask route, the 30 other people in the room I spend the most time with should be wearing one too."

Noble is saying that children should wear masks as they are more dangerous to teachers than teachers are to them (children being less likely to be badly affected by Covid as young, teachers more likely as older). Giving teachers permission to wear a mask is pretty pointless unless pupils also wear them, as on balance masks protect others more than the mask wearer. In my classroom I now insist that my learners wear masks, to protect me from them and them from each other, and I wear a mask all the time. At the beginning of the term I was told I couldn’t wear a mask, and I couldn’t ask learners to. Now I’m told I must and I can, because management have woken up to the fact that their policy was putting people at risk.

I mean, lack of clarity is one thing, but the DfE has been very clear it does not want masks being worn in classrooms by anyone.

saraclara
Your reading comprehension is pretty poor, Clavinova.

I don't think it is.

The sentence you've quoted doesn't remotely say what you think it does.

I think it does - Noble implied that she would wear a face mask in the classroom if the pupils in her class were required to do so as well. She clearly doesn't wear a face mask now - she has avoided answering me several times.