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noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 20:19

I'm sure my username in the title will be a red rag to a bull but anyway, if it's there it can't be denied any more. As you'll be aware if you've spent much time on this section, I post regularly about the situation in schools, particularly secondary schools (my patch). Secondary school children are the most infected subset of the population and lack of mitigation measures in schools is causing chaos. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

I have consistently argued for improving mitigation measures in schools in order to reduce transmission, keep schools open for more pupils and to make them safer for teachers, school staff, and vulnerable pupils.

On these threads I have been routinely abused. I've my mental health called into question, my suitability as a teacher, whether I am harming my pupils by being concerned about school safety. I've been questioned as to whether I'm actually a teacher, whether I work for a union or have some secret agenda (aside from my openly stated one to widen awareness of the school situation and my desire for improved safety). The constant refrain has been that I want schools closed. Firstly I was openly told that I wanted schools closed, then that I secretly wanted schools closed. The data I was posting was so bad that it must be a stealth campaign to close schools. That making schools safer is impossible (such a can't-do attitude) so arguing to make them safer is an argument to close them.

And now, there's just this lie constantly posted that there's a massive campaign on MN to close schools. Posts on threads about a 'vocal poster' (i.e. me) who is constantly arguing for this, with an 'echo chamber' of teachers agreeing. It's horseshit.

I think there's a group of posters who see this as a bit of fun. Posting crap and winding up teachers is some sort of weird hobby for them. They have no skin in the game.

But this isn't a game. It's not a hypothetical argument. It's a genuine health and safety issue. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it. Fellow teachers on here are catching it. One had to be blue-lighted to hospital. Teachers and school workers are in intensive care or sadly dying. We don't know how many, because this data isn't being published. We don't know how many teachers are off school, because the DfE have deliberately stopped publishing that data.

The situation in schools is not safe. It can be made safer. If you think 'but my school is safe, we've had no/few cases', then please be aware of how quickly things can change, and maybe getting preventative measures in beforehand might be desirable.

My top wish list is:

Mass testing in schools. Particularly when there is a positive case the whole bubble should be tested, to enable effective and targeted isolation and to flush out asymptomatic cases.

Scrapping the policy of only sending home close contacts. It's not working. Relying on children with covid to display the three main adult symptoms is pathetically unreliable as a way of identifying cases and isolating at-risk students. Testing should replace this.

Masks in secondary classrooms (with obvious exemptions and workarounds where needed. This is managed internationally, why should we not be able to?).

Funding for schools to improve ventilation where inadequate and for extra heating to keep the windows open.

No fines for ECV families.

Transparency around schools data, regularly published so the government can be held properly to account.

I don't want schools to close. I want them to be made safer so that they stay open longer to more pupils. If you agree with the premise, parent or teacher, even if you have a different wish list of how to achieve this, please post in support.

Thank you.

OP posts:
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mrshoho · 03/12/2020 08:55

A previous poster was saying they hadn't come across anyone on MN saying they didn't want schools open safely. I think the above has demonstrated perfectly this very attitude. Doesn't agree that masks are required because 'They don't like them'. No consideration or empathy towards the staff at school sitting in a small room with 30 teenagers for hours at a time.

herecomesthsun · 03/12/2020 09:02

Now I quite like these screens too. This is from South Korea.

noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?
Bollss · 03/12/2020 09:04

@echt

Nothing. They go to school as normal and wahs their hands more

So they do something.

okay then, they wash their hands more. Happy?

What's your point? i have never said hand washing is unacceptable.

I feel a bit like you're all just trying to bully me our of your cosy little echo chamber.,

Bollss · 03/12/2020 09:05

@mrshoho

A previous poster was saying they hadn't come across anyone on MN saying they didn't want schools open safely. I think the above has demonstrated perfectly this very attitude. Doesn't agree that masks are required because 'They don't like them'. No consideration or empathy towards the staff at school sitting in a small room with 30 teenagers for hours at a time.
how have i demonstrated that i have no consideration towards staff?

this is bullshit. dont tell me i have demonstrated something you have imagined i have.

mrshoho · 03/12/2020 09:14

You say it's bullshit but you are the one who stated you don't want masks in secondary schools. You don't want screens in secondary schools. That is what I mean when I say your posts have demonstrated this.

Bollss · 03/12/2020 09:21

Ah right, yes youve taken what ive said and fabricated how i must feel towards school staff.

i am not replying any more because youve all demonstrated that if you dont agree well make things up about ypu and bully you out of threads - as usual. nothing has changed.

herecomesthsun · 03/12/2020 09:24

no one is bullying you Grin

MrsFezziwig · 03/12/2020 09:25

Extra measures 'to ensure fair exams next summer' www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55160374

Clearly not all schools are ok.

mrshoho · 03/12/2020 09:27

I've not made up anything and I'm not bullying you.

MrsFezziwig · 03/12/2020 09:27

And this:

Ofsted points to total school disruption in some areas www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

MrsMiaWallis · 03/12/2020 09:31

this is bullshit. dont tell me i have demonstrated something you have imagined i have

This is called "mind reading" ('you said x so you are probably one of those people who think y') and it's designed to shut down debate. It happens a lot on Mumsnet.

Bollss · 03/12/2020 09:38

@mrshoho

I've not made up anything and I'm not bullying you.
yes you have, and yes you are.
middleager · 03/12/2020 09:57

[quote MrsFezziwig]And this:

Ofsted points to total school disruption in some areas www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313[/quote]
This corresponds with our own experience of the West Mids. 4 self isolations (7 missed weeks in school since Sept) for one year 10, plus Covid. Two SIs and 4 missed school weeks for my other Y10.

Will this also be factored into 2022 GCSEs I wonder?

echt · 03/12/2020 10:56

I feel a bit like you're all just trying to bully me our of your cosy little echo chamber

There you go: the feelz not the arguments, accusations of bullying based on what? Not agreeing with you? If I'm in a an echo chamber, why would you want be part of it?

You used to be better than this TrustTheGeneGenie. Not so much that I agreed with you, but that you didn't make accusations of bullying, the metaphors instead of debate.

Clavinova · 03/12/2020 11:02

Now I quite like these screens too. This is from South Korea.

I don't think you can look at single measures in isolation though - South Korea have screens in the classroom but according to this report in the Financial Times, children as young as eight were told to sit behind their screens and not talk to their friends - even at lunch - which is the most effective measure - the screen or not being allowed to talk to your friends?

www.ft.com/content/d68d6292-0486-4bfc-bf5c-54ce850a3f7a

Whereisgavin · 03/12/2020 11:06

It does indeed , mia. Here is an example:

'You have said you want schools to be safe. So you want them closed.'

echt · 03/12/2020 11:11

children as young as eight were told to sit behind their screens and not talk to their friends - even at lunch - which is the most effective measure - the screen or not being allowed to talk to your friends

Just because SK has two interventions doesn't mean screens aren't a valid consideration.What other interventions are used in the SK model?

ChloeDecker · 03/12/2020 11:12

the screen or not being allowed to talk to your friends?

The screen does let you talk to your friends in fairness! It’s not sound proof. It doesn’t let you run around with your friends at lunch in your scenario, yes.

I’d rather not have them for primary aged children but I’d rather that than my child not physically speaking to their friends or learning directly from the teacher at home during another self isolation period.

Clavinova · 03/12/2020 11:18

What other interventions are used in the SK model?

All sorts of different measures - that's my point.

Clavinova · 03/12/2020 11:21

The eight year old child in the report only had one day a week of in-class schooling.

Whereisgavin · 03/12/2020 11:26

There was something of an irony this morning in that Gavin W kept referring to Finland, Singapore, Germany and South Korea as models for excellent education and decision making in education.

Because they are still having exams (I wonder if that ahs been fact checked??). Yes, dear, but they have also put in place extensive mitigations to control virus spread, specifically in schools. of course Finnish and Singaporean kids are still doing exams. They have very very low incidence of covid.

herecomesthsun · 03/12/2020 11:37

Yes Gavin this is South Korea.

Can we have masks and screens and social distancing and ventilation and individual desks? Please?

noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?
Clavinova · 03/12/2020 12:00

There was something of an irony this morning in that Gavin W kept referring to Finland, Singapore, Germany and South Korea as models

An estimated 300,000 pupils in Germany were self isolating recently - have they cancelled exams?

Clavinova · 03/12/2020 12:06

The new way forward for A-levels;

"The Suneung, an abbreviation for College Scholastic Ability Test (CSAT) in Korean, is an eight-hour examination which has back-to-back papers in six sections - Korean, maths, English, history, social studies, and a second foreign language."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-55155217

Walkaround · 03/12/2020 12:11

@Clavinova - I somehow doubt schools in Germany have had quite the amount of cumulative pupil absence since the pandemic started as UK schools. I think it’s fair to say it is not particularly helpful comparing the UK school situation to Finland’s, Singapore’s, Germany’s or South Korea’s as a means of justifying an exam-taking requirement but not to want to compare them for anything else they are doing.