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noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 20:19

I'm sure my username in the title will be a red rag to a bull but anyway, if it's there it can't be denied any more. As you'll be aware if you've spent much time on this section, I post regularly about the situation in schools, particularly secondary schools (my patch). Secondary school children are the most infected subset of the population and lack of mitigation measures in schools is causing chaos. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

I have consistently argued for improving mitigation measures in schools in order to reduce transmission, keep schools open for more pupils and to make them safer for teachers, school staff, and vulnerable pupils.

On these threads I have been routinely abused. I've my mental health called into question, my suitability as a teacher, whether I am harming my pupils by being concerned about school safety. I've been questioned as to whether I'm actually a teacher, whether I work for a union or have some secret agenda (aside from my openly stated one to widen awareness of the school situation and my desire for improved safety). The constant refrain has been that I want schools closed. Firstly I was openly told that I wanted schools closed, then that I secretly wanted schools closed. The data I was posting was so bad that it must be a stealth campaign to close schools. That making schools safer is impossible (such a can't-do attitude) so arguing to make them safer is an argument to close them.

And now, there's just this lie constantly posted that there's a massive campaign on MN to close schools. Posts on threads about a 'vocal poster' (i.e. me) who is constantly arguing for this, with an 'echo chamber' of teachers agreeing. It's horseshit.

I think there's a group of posters who see this as a bit of fun. Posting crap and winding up teachers is some sort of weird hobby for them. They have no skin in the game.

But this isn't a game. It's not a hypothetical argument. It's a genuine health and safety issue. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it. Fellow teachers on here are catching it. One had to be blue-lighted to hospital. Teachers and school workers are in intensive care or sadly dying. We don't know how many, because this data isn't being published. We don't know how many teachers are off school, because the DfE have deliberately stopped publishing that data.

The situation in schools is not safe. It can be made safer. If you think 'but my school is safe, we've had no/few cases', then please be aware of how quickly things can change, and maybe getting preventative measures in beforehand might be desirable.

My top wish list is:

Mass testing in schools. Particularly when there is a positive case the whole bubble should be tested, to enable effective and targeted isolation and to flush out asymptomatic cases.

Scrapping the policy of only sending home close contacts. It's not working. Relying on children with covid to display the three main adult symptoms is pathetically unreliable as a way of identifying cases and isolating at-risk students. Testing should replace this.

Masks in secondary classrooms (with obvious exemptions and workarounds where needed. This is managed internationally, why should we not be able to?).

Funding for schools to improve ventilation where inadequate and for extra heating to keep the windows open.

No fines for ECV families.

Transparency around schools data, regularly published so the government can be held properly to account.

I don't want schools to close. I want them to be made safer so that they stay open longer to more pupils. If you agree with the premise, parent or teacher, even if you have a different wish list of how to achieve this, please post in support.

Thank you.

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mrshoho · 02/12/2020 22:40

Unfortunately @LurkingLurking2020 there have been many many threads and posters demanding no masks in schools. At one time people who were advocating for masks in schools were accused of wanting to muzzle children. That's just one example.

saraclara · 02/12/2020 22:44

@GalaxyCookieCrumble

If you were asked to walk into a small and cramped room containing 30 unmasked adults*, unmasked yourself, how would you feel? Comfortable? Uncomfortable? Would you be relieved to be able to leave after five or ten minutes? Especially as there's no air conditioning and the windows might only open a couple of inches if they''re not on the ground floor (H&S rules)

Now imagine that you have to stay in that room with them for an hour. After which you remain in that room while another 30 unmasked people come in for an hour. Then again...and again...and again. Five or six hours in total. Then the same the next day, and the next day and over and over and over.

On Mumsnet every day, there are people (quite rightly) stressing about someone in the supermarket who had their nose sticking out of their mask. Or someone on the bus who pulled their mask under their chin for the duration. And yet I bet some of those same people are calling teachers precious.

*kids in their mid to late teens are just as likely to catch and pass it on as adults. Possibly more so given that they don't socially distance in or out of school

Badgerstmary · 02/12/2020 22:49

Teacher & parent here. I agree with everything you have said Noble.
Thanks

noblegiraffe · 02/12/2020 23:03

I have read lots of posts and threads but I have never seen anyone say that they 'don't want safer schools'.

There’s two threads arguing for less safe schools on the first page of this section.

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MrsMiaWallis · 02/12/2020 23:04

@noblegiraffe

I don't think parents know the half of it.
They probably don't, just like you have no idea what is going on in their lives. Does that matter? What do you expect them to do?
noblegiraffe · 02/12/2020 23:12

They probably don't, just like you have no idea what is going on in their lives. Does that matter?

Do I think it’s important that people know that they are being lied to by the government, misled by the media, and that the reason for the current chaos in schools is because of infection rates rising due to uncontrolled covid transmission? That they should be sceptical when the message they are hearing is that ‘too many children are being sent home’?

What about the businesses that are closing due to restrictions that wouldn’t be as necessary if the covid spread in schools was better controlled?

Or what about the families who are being lied to about the risks in schools who may be too complacent when it comes to mixing at Christmas?

If I didn’t think it was important to discuss, I wouldn’t be posting, would I?

And my threads show that plenty of people want to discuss this.

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LurkingLurking2020 · 02/12/2020 23:52

@noblegiraffe

I have read lots of posts and threads but I have never seen anyone say that they 'don't want safer schools'.

There’s two threads arguing for less safe schools on the first page of this section.

I haven't really gone through the coronavirus threads before. Thanks. It actually led me to another thread that was particularly relevant to me. I mainly I look through the AIBU, the trending chat and relationships.

Keep on posting. Is there any national campaign etc that individuals can add their names to for safer schools?

noblegiraffe · 03/12/2020 00:17

I think that people who don’t want safer schools would prefer that you took your child out of school to save them having to think about it

Stop putting words into people's mouths.

But that’s the basis of the Great Barrington Declaration, isn’t it Trust?

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noblegiraffe · 03/12/2020 00:39

Is there any national campaign etc that individuals can add their names to for safer schools?

There’s a parent campaign group, just changed their name and can’t remember what they are called now. They want blended learning though which isn’t really my bag.

I’ve been suggesting that people write to their MPs.

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ineedaholidaynow · 03/12/2020 00:45

@GalaxyCookieCrumble why did you take your child out of school, what did the headteacher lie about?

I advised parents could lobby their MP. There are more parents than teachers. Parents need to know the dire state of education funding.

How many parents on here at the beginning of lockdown were asking why schools weren’t putting portacabins in the playgrounds, employing more teachers so they could have more classes in over the summer term. Parents who can’t understand why schools are struggling to afford hand sanitiser. They don’t understand why schools are closing because they have too many staff off sick, they ask why don’t they get supply teachers in. They have no idea that schools can’t just magic up money to pay for all these things. For gods sake in normal times most schools struggle to afford books and glue sticks, how the hell could they afford a portacabin.

Parents on here need people like noble to tell them how it is. Teachers when talking to actual parents in school won’t tell them how bad things really are.

herecomesthsun · 03/12/2020 01:59

[quote saraclara]@GalaxyCookieCrumble

If you were asked to walk into a small and cramped room containing 30 unmasked adults*, unmasked yourself, how would you feel? Comfortable? Uncomfortable? Would you be relieved to be able to leave after five or ten minutes? Especially as there's no air conditioning and the windows might only open a couple of inches if they''re not on the ground floor (H&S rules)

Now imagine that you have to stay in that room with them for an hour. After which you remain in that room while another 30 unmasked people come in for an hour. Then again...and again...and again. Five or six hours in total. Then the same the next day, and the next day and over and over and over.

On Mumsnet every day, there are people (quite rightly) stressing about someone in the supermarket who had their nose sticking out of their mask. Or someone on the bus who pulled their mask under their chin for the duration. And yet I bet some of those same people are calling teachers precious.

*kids in their mid to late teens are just as likely to catch and pass it on as adults. Possibly more so given that they don't socially distance in or out of school[/quote]
You are 8 x more likely to catch covid from a secondary school student than an adult. (I put the link on here recently but can't find it now)

Bollss · 03/12/2020 07:14

@noblegiraffe

I think that people who don’t want safer schools would prefer that you took your child out of school to save them having to think about it

Stop putting words into people's mouths.

But that’s the basis of the Great Barrington Declaration, isn’t it Trust?

Weird. I've never once mentioned that have i? Why are you assuming it's something I agree with or support? Confused
SOboredofcleaning · 03/12/2020 07:19

Agreed. Speaking as a parent....
Safer schools are a must or they will end up closing. Which was a bloody nightmare.
Mass testing, heating on, windows open, masks for secondary schools absolutely!

Mass testing seems the most obviously sensible thing now 🤷‍♀️

herecomesthsun · 03/12/2020 07:20

I'd love mass testing!

scraggadoo · 03/12/2020 07:28

Our daughter's senior school has been working with PHE as cases in the school are out of control. They closed before half term for an additional week but that did not help. They have started screening now and pupils in 3 year groups must screen, (go for a test, confirm negative result) before coming back into school. It is not quite mass testing but I think it will become more common.

Fully support the thread.

noblegiraffe · 03/12/2020 07:37

Weird. I've never once mentioned that have i? Why are you assuming it's something I agree with or support?

Weird, I was talking about people who don’t want safer schools and you assumed I was talking about you.

Do you not want schools to be safer for teachers, school workers and vulnerable families, Trust? Do you want the current chaos to continue as is?

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Bollss · 03/12/2020 07:43

@noblegiraffe

Weird. I've never once mentioned that have i? Why are you assuming it's something I agree with or support?

Weird, I was talking about people who don’t want safer schools and you assumed I was talking about you.

Do you not want schools to be safer for teachers, school workers and vulnerable families, Trust? Do you want the current chaos to continue as is?

You tagged me and specifically asked me about something which I've never mentioned and tbh don't really know anything about - as if you wanted me to justify it? Why wouldn't it be about me. You asked me?

Current chaos? My personal experience of this isn't chaos. I don't want masks or screens so I don't know to be honest.

noblegiraffe · 03/12/2020 07:48

You tagged me and specifically asked me about something which I've never mentioned

Yes, because you said I was putting words in people’s mouths by saying that people who don’t want safer schools want people to take their vulnerable kids out and leave the rest to it. Which seems a fair comment, given, as I said, this is the basis of the Great Barrington Declaration.

The alternative would be that people who don’t want safer schools don’t give a shit about vulnerable kids catching it so long as their kid doesn’t have to experience mitigation measures.

I suppose there’s also the ones that think covid is a hoax.

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Bollss · 03/12/2020 07:55

@noblegiraffe

You tagged me and specifically asked me about something which I've never mentioned

Yes, because you said I was putting words in people’s mouths by saying that people who don’t want safer schools want people to take their vulnerable kids out and leave the rest to it. Which seems a fair comment, given, as I said, this is the basis of the Great Barrington Declaration.

The alternative would be that people who don’t want safer schools don’t give a shit about vulnerable kids catching it so long as their kid doesn’t have to experience mitigation measures.

I suppose there’s also the ones that think covid is a hoax.

But by asking me you assume I know something about it? I don't.

I do give a shit about vulnerable kids but I don't think masks and screens are the answer.

I don't think covid is a hoax either Hmm

You seem to think everyone who doesn't want this is thick, horrible or a conspiracy theorist. Many of us just don't want our children spending 5 days a week like that, because we wouldn't want it for ourselves.

Not everyone has to agree with you.

noblegiraffe · 03/12/2020 08:05

I do give a shit about vulnerable kids but I don't think masks and screens are the answer.

And the list in my OP? I’ve not mentioned screens and only masks for secondary btw.

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RingPiece · 03/12/2020 08:05

I do give a shit about vulnerable kids but I don't think masks and screens are the answer.

But it is one answer, one thing that might help to make schools safer. If we haven't got a better solution, for now surely we should go with it. Why would anyone think that not doing anything and just waiting until 'something better' comes along is a better option?

RingPiece · 03/12/2020 08:08

...and I'm mainly talking about masks, not screens. Schools are still saying that their staff can't wear masks inside the building. They are telling them not to. They are telling CEV and CV not to for god's sake. How is this ok?

Bollss · 03/12/2020 08:08

@noblegiraffe

I do give a shit about vulnerable kids but I don't think masks and screens are the answer.

And the list in my OP? I’ve not mentioned screens and only masks for secondary btw.

Well I've already said I agree with funding, I don't agree that whole years or whatever you said should be sent home. I don't agree with masks all day for anyone who's not working in healthcare tbh. I've already said i think if you want to take your kids out you should be able to. I'm undecided about mass testing because I don't think it's necessarily reliable.
Bollss · 03/12/2020 08:09

@RingPiece

...and I'm mainly talking about masks, not screens. Schools are still saying that their staff can't wear masks inside the building. They are telling them not to. They are telling CEV and CV not to for god's sake. How is this ok?
I think staff should be able to wear whatever kind of ppe they want, I just don't agree with children being forced to wear it.
ChloeDecker · 03/12/2020 08:18

I just don't agree with children being forced to wear it.

Even the 17 and 18 year old children in schools?

Public transport where I am (trains, tube and buses) do insist on masks over 12 year olds.

I agree with you about your Reception age child and my own Year 1 child regarding masks etc. Secondary schools aren’t the same however, and therefore, a blanket ‘no school should do this’ isn’t often helpful.

Swipe left for the next trending thread