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noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 20:19

I'm sure my username in the title will be a red rag to a bull but anyway, if it's there it can't be denied any more. As you'll be aware if you've spent much time on this section, I post regularly about the situation in schools, particularly secondary schools (my patch). Secondary school children are the most infected subset of the population and lack of mitigation measures in schools is causing chaos. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

I have consistently argued for improving mitigation measures in schools in order to reduce transmission, keep schools open for more pupils and to make them safer for teachers, school staff, and vulnerable pupils.

On these threads I have been routinely abused. I've my mental health called into question, my suitability as a teacher, whether I am harming my pupils by being concerned about school safety. I've been questioned as to whether I'm actually a teacher, whether I work for a union or have some secret agenda (aside from my openly stated one to widen awareness of the school situation and my desire for improved safety). The constant refrain has been that I want schools closed. Firstly I was openly told that I wanted schools closed, then that I secretly wanted schools closed. The data I was posting was so bad that it must be a stealth campaign to close schools. That making schools safer is impossible (such a can't-do attitude) so arguing to make them safer is an argument to close them.

And now, there's just this lie constantly posted that there's a massive campaign on MN to close schools. Posts on threads about a 'vocal poster' (i.e. me) who is constantly arguing for this, with an 'echo chamber' of teachers agreeing. It's horseshit.

I think there's a group of posters who see this as a bit of fun. Posting crap and winding up teachers is some sort of weird hobby for them. They have no skin in the game.

But this isn't a game. It's not a hypothetical argument. It's a genuine health and safety issue. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it. Fellow teachers on here are catching it. One had to be blue-lighted to hospital. Teachers and school workers are in intensive care or sadly dying. We don't know how many, because this data isn't being published. We don't know how many teachers are off school, because the DfE have deliberately stopped publishing that data.

The situation in schools is not safe. It can be made safer. If you think 'but my school is safe, we've had no/few cases', then please be aware of how quickly things can change, and maybe getting preventative measures in beforehand might be desirable.

My top wish list is:

Mass testing in schools. Particularly when there is a positive case the whole bubble should be tested, to enable effective and targeted isolation and to flush out asymptomatic cases.

Scrapping the policy of only sending home close contacts. It's not working. Relying on children with covid to display the three main adult symptoms is pathetically unreliable as a way of identifying cases and isolating at-risk students. Testing should replace this.

Masks in secondary classrooms (with obvious exemptions and workarounds where needed. This is managed internationally, why should we not be able to?).

Funding for schools to improve ventilation where inadequate and for extra heating to keep the windows open.

No fines for ECV families.

Transparency around schools data, regularly published so the government can be held properly to account.

I don't want schools to close. I want them to be made safer so that they stay open longer to more pupils. If you agree with the premise, parent or teacher, even if you have a different wish list of how to achieve this, please post in support.

Thank you.

OP posts:
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Ethelfleda · 02/12/2020 20:47

I’m sorry, who?

MrsMiaWallis · 02/12/2020 20:48

The fact that some parents think that any compromise to be made by them and their children is an intolerable imposition when set against the above just beggars belief

This year has been absolutely shit for the vast majority of parents. Yes you'll get some chippy fuckers who won't wear masks but most are trying bloody hard. Seriously, what alternatives do parents have? Schools are.open so kids go. Most are trying to do the right thing. Aside from emailing their MP there is literally nothing else parents can do!

FrippEnos · 02/12/2020 20:50

GalaxyCookieCrumble

Why are teachers more precious than any other worker in this country?

Why are teachers not being given the same protection as other workers in the country?

Because that is what is being asked for, not more protection just the same level of protection.

ThreeImaginaryBoys · 02/12/2020 20:50

As a parent and a teacher I support your view 100% @noblegiraffe

All I want is safer provision in schools. The notion that the health of school staff is collateral damage is absolutely disgraceful. Some posters on recent threads should be utterly disgusted with themselves. I was told to 'suck it up' by a particularly revolting poster when I expressed reservations about the safety of classrooms a few weeks ago.

Keep fighting the good fight. Don't let selfish ignorant twats break you.

QueenBlueberries · 02/12/2020 20:55

Bus drivers, face masks, pannels around their seat.

Nurses and doctors, full PPE

GP? shut

SHops? pannels and face masks.

Secondary school teachers sharing classrooms with 25+ children, 5 times a day? NO protection. Precious my arse.

LurkingLurking2020 · 02/12/2020 21:03

I understand why you post @noblegiraffe ....... however, would it not be more effective to campaign your local MP/the government/your union/even start a petition for the list of requirements you want rather than post on here a thread of anonymous posters some from the UK and some not. If you are doing those things great but lots of threads on MN about this isn't likely to change anything even if a couple of people from government/education etc etc might glance this way from time to time. A thread on here isn't campaigning it's just listing a range of 'hopes' which many people agree with but really doesn't appear to actually change anything at all (to date anyway).

herecomesthsun · 02/12/2020 21:07

@LurkingLurking2020 @noblegiraffe has done those things (and so have many of us)

Comefromaway · 02/12/2020 21:13

Well if we are talking about psychological impact, what about the psychological impact on my daughter of being made to go into an unsafe, crowded environment every day in order to study.

LurkingLurking2020 · 02/12/2020 21:15

[quote herecomesthsun]**@LurkingLurking2020* @noblegiraffe* has done those things (and so have many of us)[/quote]
Thank you. Could you link the petition so perhaps all the people on here supporting the safer guidelines could sign (if not already done so). I understand that once a certain number of people sign the government has to discuss the petition - is this correct. Again, perhaps that has already occurred and didn't get anywhere?

It's a shame that the government/department of education have chosen not to listen - that explains the posting on MN - frustration witl lack of action.

CallmeAngelina · 02/12/2020 21:22

@LurkingLurking2020, Well, there is sufficient footfall on these MN threads for the DfE to decide it was worth posting some propaganda on one of them. So I would take from that that some feathers are being ruffled.

CallmeAngelina · 02/12/2020 21:23

I don't think that @noblegiraffe has posted any petitions?

LurkingLurking2020 · 02/12/2020 21:28

[quote CallmeAngelina]@LurkingLurking2020, Well, there is sufficient footfall on these MN threads for the DfE to decide it was worth posting some propaganda on one of them. So I would take from that that some feathers are being ruffled.[/quote]
I missed the propaganda?

Since schools are struggling in many parts of the country then feathers should be ruffled and perhaps some action in response?

The petition thing was in response to PP saying that all the things I suggested have bee tried already (and presumably failed). I haven't seen any petitions (not sure how effective they are but I do know that some in the past have triggered action) so I suggested perhaps posting a link to one or another of them to share around. The footfall that hasn't signed might well sign?

ladymalfoy45 · 02/12/2020 21:31

#istandwithnoblegiraffe.

FinallyHere · 02/12/2020 21:51

Completely agree with and support you noble, thank you for not giving up.

I'm neither a teacher nor do I have children currently in full time education. However, I know lots of teachers and am honestly embarrassed when I compare my own employer's approach which starts with 'the health and safety of our employees is out highest priority' with what teachers face every day without any acknowledgement of what they are doing in really serious circumstances.

MrsMiaWallis · 02/12/2020 21:53

without any acknowledgement of what they are doing in really serious circumstances

I think most parents appreciate what teachers are doing?

noblegiraffe · 02/12/2020 22:14

I don't think parents know the half of it.

OP posts:
Isthatitnow · 02/12/2020 22:15

I will never agree that shoving a child behind a plastic screen for 6 hours a day 5 days a week is better for their mental health

Better than what? Are children not part of our society? Can they not take responsibility for the spread of a virus that could result in the death of their parents and grandparents?

And my child, a type 1 diabetic, would love a screen. His mental health is shot right now because he is forced to mix with hundreds of other kids in corridors and he is worried about what contracting the virus will mean for him. So as I’ve said on other threads and no one has bothered to respond, why is his mental health not important? Is it only healthy children with healthy families that actually matter in your eyes?

noblegiraffe · 02/12/2020 22:22

I think that people who don’t want safer schools would prefer that you took your child out of school to save them having to think about it, isthat.

OP posts:
mrshoho · 02/12/2020 22:28

@MrsMiaWallis

without any acknowledgement of what they are doing in really serious circumstances

I think most parents appreciate what teachers are doing?

Some do and some don't. You only have to look at some of the vile comments on these threads directed at teachers and school staff. One example; Why are teachers more precious than any other worker in this country? What sort of question is that to ask given the complete lack of protection given to teachers in state schools?
LurkingLurking2020 · 02/12/2020 22:29

@Isthatitnow

I will never agree that shoving a child behind a plastic screen for 6 hours a day 5 days a week is better for their mental health

Better than what? Are children not part of our society? Can they not take responsibility for the spread of a virus that could result in the death of their parents and grandparents?

And my child, a type 1 diabetic, would love a screen. His mental health is shot right now because he is forced to mix with hundreds of other kids in corridors and he is worried about what contracting the virus will mean for him. So as I’ve said on other threads and no one has bothered to respond, why is his mental health not important? Is it only healthy children with healthy families that actually matter in your eyes?

I don't know who made the comment that you have highlighted in black. I imagine they speak from the point of view of a non vulnerable child? Has your son's school done a risk assessment of your child and shared it with you? This should then be included in your child’s Individual Healthcare Plan (IHP) - you could ask the school for enhanced protection for him and get it included in his IHP? Where he sits/extra distance/visor/mask/leave early so move around corridors when no-one else using them?

It must be really tough for your son (and you). His mental health is as important as any other child.

Bollss · 02/12/2020 22:31

@noblegiraffe

I think that people who don’t want safer schools would prefer that you took your child out of school to save them having to think about it, isthat.
Stop putting words into people's mouths. Hmm
Isthatitnow · 02/12/2020 22:31

noblegiraffe. Would love to but it’s an outstanding school with a long waiting list. He would lose his place. And I’m a single parent so not working isn’t an option. And I’m a shortage subject teacher so no matter what mumsnet thinks, you know that education as a whole can’t afford to be losing people like me.

People need to think about it. We need to stop pretending that children do not form a part of our wider society who can do whatever they want, when they want. My classes gladly wear masks for me, because they see the bigger picture. Lots of children there, with respect for me and my son, happy to do something to try and help. Not one complaint. It’s not rocket science. Teach children respect and collective responsibility. The world would be a better place.

LurkingLurking2020 · 02/12/2020 22:32

@noblegiraffe

I think that people who don’t want safer schools would prefer that you took your child out of school to save them having to think about it, isthat.
I have read lots of posts and threads but I have never seen anyone say that they 'don't want safer schools'. Lots of said that they want schools to remain open. Perhaps they don't understand your concerns and concerns of people working in schools fully?
christinarossetti19 · 02/12/2020 22:32

#Istandwithnoblegiraffe too.

Thanks for all that you are doing, noble.

Is it 14million views that MN gets every day? Mostly parents?

Definitely a good place to be promoting the case for safer schools.

christinarossetti19 · 02/12/2020 22:35

LurkingLurking2020 there are plenty of threads and posts saying things along the lines of 'there haven't been any cases in my child's school, so schools are safe' which amounts to the same thing.

I would seriously question the reading and comprehension skills of anyone who has posted on noble's threads and doesn't understand the concerns of people working in schools.

She and others have explained them, supported by evidence, often enough.