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noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 20:19

I'm sure my username in the title will be a red rag to a bull but anyway, if it's there it can't be denied any more. As you'll be aware if you've spent much time on this section, I post regularly about the situation in schools, particularly secondary schools (my patch). Secondary school children are the most infected subset of the population and lack of mitigation measures in schools is causing chaos. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

I have consistently argued for improving mitigation measures in schools in order to reduce transmission, keep schools open for more pupils and to make them safer for teachers, school staff, and vulnerable pupils.

On these threads I have been routinely abused. I've my mental health called into question, my suitability as a teacher, whether I am harming my pupils by being concerned about school safety. I've been questioned as to whether I'm actually a teacher, whether I work for a union or have some secret agenda (aside from my openly stated one to widen awareness of the school situation and my desire for improved safety). The constant refrain has been that I want schools closed. Firstly I was openly told that I wanted schools closed, then that I secretly wanted schools closed. The data I was posting was so bad that it must be a stealth campaign to close schools. That making schools safer is impossible (such a can't-do attitude) so arguing to make them safer is an argument to close them.

And now, there's just this lie constantly posted that there's a massive campaign on MN to close schools. Posts on threads about a 'vocal poster' (i.e. me) who is constantly arguing for this, with an 'echo chamber' of teachers agreeing. It's horseshit.

I think there's a group of posters who see this as a bit of fun. Posting crap and winding up teachers is some sort of weird hobby for them. They have no skin in the game.

But this isn't a game. It's not a hypothetical argument. It's a genuine health and safety issue. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it. Fellow teachers on here are catching it. One had to be blue-lighted to hospital. Teachers and school workers are in intensive care or sadly dying. We don't know how many, because this data isn't being published. We don't know how many teachers are off school, because the DfE have deliberately stopped publishing that data.

The situation in schools is not safe. It can be made safer. If you think 'but my school is safe, we've had no/few cases', then please be aware of how quickly things can change, and maybe getting preventative measures in beforehand might be desirable.

My top wish list is:

Mass testing in schools. Particularly when there is a positive case the whole bubble should be tested, to enable effective and targeted isolation and to flush out asymptomatic cases.

Scrapping the policy of only sending home close contacts. It's not working. Relying on children with covid to display the three main adult symptoms is pathetically unreliable as a way of identifying cases and isolating at-risk students. Testing should replace this.

Masks in secondary classrooms (with obvious exemptions and workarounds where needed. This is managed internationally, why should we not be able to?).

Funding for schools to improve ventilation where inadequate and for extra heating to keep the windows open.

No fines for ECV families.

Transparency around schools data, regularly published so the government can be held properly to account.

I don't want schools to close. I want them to be made safer so that they stay open longer to more pupils. If you agree with the premise, parent or teacher, even if you have a different wish list of how to achieve this, please post in support.

Thank you.

OP posts:
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CountDuckulasKetchup · 02/12/2020 19:10

Trust, are you saying that s pupil who defaces school property shouldn't be given a detention?

TaxTheRatFarms · 02/12/2020 19:11

Gosh, no, why would one respect the opinion of esteemed epidemiologist, specialist in pandemic preparedness, Jonathan Van Tam? I bet the fool doesn’t even have a YouTube channel!

And sorry this is an epic segue but I did not know this about him: Shock

“Van-Tam's grandfather was Nguyễn Văn Tâm, nicknamed the Tiger of Cai Lậy, who served as Prime Minister of the State of Vietnam, and his uncle was Nguyễn Văn Hinh, chief of staff of the Vietnamese National Army and the first Vietnamese officer in the French Armed Forces to be promoted to the rank of general.[4]

He has stated that he is a dedicated supporter and season ticket holder at Boston United.”

The juxtaposition of those two facts is magical.

Bollss · 02/12/2020 19:12

@CountDuckulasKetchup

Trust, are you saying that s pupil who defaces school property shouldn't be given a detention?
I have never said that? Or anything even related?
Bollss · 02/12/2020 19:12

@TaxTheRatFarms

Gosh, no, why would one respect the opinion of esteemed epidemiologist, specialist in pandemic preparedness, Jonathan Van Tam? I bet the fool doesn’t even have a YouTube channel!

And sorry this is an epic segue but I did not know this about him: Shock

“Van-Tam's grandfather was Nguyễn Văn Tâm, nicknamed the Tiger of Cai Lậy, who served as Prime Minister of the State of Vietnam, and his uncle was Nguyễn Văn Hinh, chief of staff of the Vietnamese National Army and the first Vietnamese officer in the French Armed Forces to be promoted to the rank of general.[4]

He has stated that he is a dedicated supporter and season ticket holder at Boston United.”

The juxtaposition of those two facts is magical.

I never said I didn't trust his opinion just that his opinion alone doesn't convince me on this one. He isn't an expert in the psychological well-being of children, is he?
CountDuckulasKetchup · 02/12/2020 19:15

Sorry trust, thought either of those things meant both quotes Smile

Sorry, been a long day and easy to misread.

CountDuckulasKetchup · 02/12/2020 19:16

Not sure what happened to my quote of your quotes, apparently me and technology are falling out today...

borntobequiet · 02/12/2020 19:24

Just to say that the social outcomes of education have little, if anything, to do with the social lives of children in school. They’re more dependent on the structure of schooling: types of school, curricula, expectations of achievement.
Also that inveterate penis drawers are seldom put off by detentions. Detentions work on better behaved children, who are shamed by them. For many a penis artist, a detention is a validation of their skill and daring.

MilesJuppIsMyBitch · 02/12/2020 19:30

From the OP:

'. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it. Fellow teachers on here are catching it. One had to be blue-lighted to hospital. Teachers and school workers are in intensive care or sadly dying. We don't know how many, because this data isn't being published. We don't know how many teachers are off school, because the DfE have deliberately stopped publishing that data.'

This is the nub of it. If I try to explain my thoughts and feelings on this, it just comes out as hyperbole.

The fact that some parents think that any compromise to be made by them and their children is an intolerable imposition when set against the above just beggars belief.

theThreeofWeevils · 02/12/2020 19:42

The fact that some parents think that any compromise to be made by them and their children is an intolerable imposition when set against the above just beggars belief

Been on mumsnet long, have you? Wink
But yes, it is a bit mind-boggling.

MilesJuppIsMyBitch · 02/12/2020 19:44

@theThreeofWeevils

The fact that some parents think that any compromise to be made by them and their children is an intolerable imposition when set against the above just beggars belief

Been on mumsnet long, have you? Wink
But yes, it is a bit mind-boggling.

Fourteen years! I'm sure it's got worse.

Maybe I've got my pink glasses on again.

GalaxyCookieCrumble · 02/12/2020 19:45

Why are you not lobbying Gavin Williamson @noblegiraffe instead of consuming all your time on here?

MilesJuppIsMyBitch · 02/12/2020 19:46

It's more fun doing it here, surely.

noblegiraffe · 02/12/2020 19:46

Indeed Miles that is the inevitable outcome of inadequate health and safety measures.

I am genuinely shocked by how many teachers I know (in real life and on here) who have caught it since September. I’m also quite surprised that I haven’t (seemed to have) caught it yet given how many cases I have been in close contact with (and of course never had to isolate for).

OP posts:
whereisGavin · 02/12/2020 19:47

Oh sorry, have you seen him? I am looking everywhere for him.

Regds,

Nick Gibb, minister for school standards.

noblegiraffe · 02/12/2020 19:47

@GalaxyCookieCrumble

Why are you not lobbying Gavin Williamson *@noblegiraffe* instead of consuming all your time on here?
He’s not my MP so I can’t. Also he has completely vanished without leaving a forwarding address.
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GalaxyCookieCrumble · 02/12/2020 19:49

@Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady

I agree with you.

But as a CV parent with a CV partner, I would also like the option for my child to do online learning without having to de register him.

You do have the option, check the reopening of schools policy, it's clearly stated schools have to offer remote education without having to de register your child, this is exactly what I have done with my youngest. The school no doubt will argue abs insist you are wrong, but it's in black and white and they have to follow it.
GalaxyCookieCrumble · 02/12/2020 20:03

@ineedaholidaynow

Maybe parents who are reading this could lobby their MPs for safer schools, more funding etc
As could the teachers
noblegiraffe · 02/12/2020 20:07

As could the teachers

Yes, I have. And I have shared my email on here so that others can too.

I know others have been also been emailing their MPs. We’ve discussed their inadequate responses.

What have you done?

OP posts:
Mookie81 · 02/12/2020 20:18

[quote CallmeAngelina]@Mookie81, You're right - I'm so sorry! Misinterpreted what you were saying.
[/quote]
No worries Wink.
I'm a fellow teacher who is isolating for another week.
We have had a lot of cases and burst bubbles.
It's hard to remote teach nursery children! I would much rather have them in doing all the Xmas activities.
Plus I only had half of my class on a Zoom today; for some it may have been a lack of device but that's a minority.
They need to be in school, but staff also matter and the pigheadedness of the govt regarding safety measures is infuriating.

GalaxyCookieCrumble · 02/12/2020 20:21

I tell what I have done, removed my son from school because even the head teacher lied too parents about reopening of schools. Your on here ranting on all the time and nothing has changed in months, your anger is very misplaced. Why are teachers more precious than any other worker in this country?

noblegiraffe · 02/12/2020 20:22

I don’t understand your post, Galaxy

OP posts:
MilesJuppIsMyBitch · 02/12/2020 20:23

@GalaxyCookieCrumble

I tell what I have done, removed my son from school because even the head teacher lied too parents about reopening of schools. Your on here ranting on all the time and nothing has changed in months, your anger is very misplaced. Why are teachers more precious than any other worker in this country?
Yes. That's what she's saying.

What else could anyone take from this thread?

herecomesthsun · 02/12/2020 20:23

I'm very grateful to @noblegiraffe for her persistence, I'm glad someone is speaking up about this,

monkeytennis97 · 02/12/2020 20:25

@GalaxyCookieCrumble I'm a teacher. My DH is a teacher. I've written to my MP 3 times about school safety. One party line bullshit response so far.

mrshoho · 02/12/2020 20:25

Today 19:49GalaxyCookieCrumble
Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady
I agree with you.
But as a CV parent with a CV partner, I would also like the option for my child to do online learning without having to de register him.
You do have the option, check the reopening of schools policy, it's clearly stated schools have to offer remote education without having to de register your child, this is exactly what I have done with my youngest. The school no doubt will argue abs insist you are wrong, but it's in black and white and they have to follow it.

No @GalaxyCookieCrumble it does not clearly state that. See below taken from the school reopening guidance.

'Pupils and families who are anxious about attending school
All other pupils must attend school. Schools should bear in mind the potential concerns of pupils, parents and households who may be reluctant or anxious about attending school and put the right support in place to address this. This may include pupils who have themselves been shielding previously but have been advised that this is no longer formally advised, those living in households where someone is clinically vulnerable or extremely vulnerable, or those concerned about the possible increased risks from coronavirus (COVID-19), including those from black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) backgrounds or who have certain conditions such as obesity and diabetes.

If parents of pupils with possible risk factors are concerned, we recommend schools discuss their concerns and provide reassurance of the measures they are putting in place to reduce the risk in school. Schools should be clear with parents that pupils of compulsory school age must be in school unless a statutory reason applies (for example, the pupil has been granted a leave of absence, is unable to attend because of sickness, is absent for a necessary religious observance)'

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