noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?

[noblegiraffe]

I'm sure my username in the title will be a red rag to a bull but anyway, if it's there it can't be denied any more. As you'll be aware if you've spent much time on this section, I post regularly about the situation in schools, particularly secondary schools (my patch). Secondary school children are the most infected subset of the population and lack of mitigation measures in schools is causing chaos. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

I have consistently argued for improving mitigation measures in schools in order to reduce transmission, keep schools open for more pupils and to make them safer for teachers, school staff, and vulnerable pupils.

On these threads I have been routinely abused. I've my mental health called into question, my suitability as a teacher, whether I am harming my pupils by being concerned about school safety. I've been questioned as to whether I'm actually a teacher, whether I work for a union or have some secret agenda (aside from my openly stated one to widen awareness of the school situation and my desire for improved safety). The constant refrain has been that I want schools closed. Firstly I was openly told that I wanted schools closed, then that I secretly wanted schools closed. The data I was posting was so bad that it must be a stealth campaign to close schools. That making schools safer is impossible (such a can't-do attitude) so arguing to make them safer is an argument to close them.

And now, there's just this lie constantly posted that there's a massive campaign on MN to close schools. Posts on threads about a 'vocal poster' (i.e. me) who is constantly arguing for this, with an 'echo chamber' of teachers agreeing. It's horseshit.

I think there's a group of posters who see this as a bit of fun. Posting crap and winding up teachers is some sort of weird hobby for them. They have no skin in the game.

But this isn't a game. It's not a hypothetical argument. It's a genuine health and safety issue. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it. Fellow teachers on here are catching it. One had to be blue-lighted to hospital. Teachers and school workers are in intensive care or sadly dying. We don't know how many, because this data isn't being published. We don't know how many teachers are off school, because the DfE have deliberately stopped publishing that data.

The situation in schools is not safe. It can be made safer. If you think 'but my school is safe, we've had no/few cases', then please be aware of how quickly things can change, and maybe getting preventative measures in beforehand might be desirable.

My top wish list is:

Mass testing in schools. Particularly when there is a positive case the whole bubble should be tested, to enable effective and targeted isolation and to flush out asymptomatic cases.

Scrapping the policy of only sending home close contacts. It's not working. Relying on children with covid to display the three main adult symptoms is pathetically unreliable as a way of identifying cases and isolating at-risk students. Testing should replace this.

Masks in secondary classrooms (with obvious exemptions and workarounds where needed. This is managed internationally, why should we not be able to?).

Funding for schools to improve ventilation where inadequate and for extra heating to keep the windows open.

No fines for ECV families.

Transparency around schools data, regularly published so the government can be held properly to account.

I don't want schools to close. I want them to be made safer so that they stay open longer to more pupils. If you agree with the premise, parent or teacher, even if you have a different wish list of how to achieve this, please post in support.

Thank you.

Have you got your sleeve rolled up already, Miles? Glad to hear things are looking up for you!

eventually may be rather too late to save schools from chaos.

I didn't actually think there was any plan for young people to get the jab.

You remember when ‘this was all fields’ and the was a Mumsnet scarf?
I think all teachers should have a mug with a giraffe on so we can identify each other on the rare occasions when we make it to the staff room for a cup of tea or coffee. Or badges.

JVT just identified unsafe spaces to avoid:

Crowded
Lots of Close Contacts
Closed spaces
high Volume (as in noise)
poor Ventilation
Duration (long time spent there)

Oh dear .

And yet JVT put his signature on that public letter saying schools would be fine.

mug with a giraffe on

I found my mug.

I just started a thread on the 3C D and V thing.

JYT admires Japanese infection control greatly.

This is a Japanese elementary school. I think these are first graders so that means about 6 years old? They have masks, individual desks and perspex screens.

Could you recommend those for our schools please. JVT?

[quote CallmeAngelina]@Mookie81, You're kind of proving Miles's point.[/quote]
How? I'm trying to be supportive.

Given the title of the thread its amazing that some posters are so stupid that they are posting that schools must stay open.

@herecomesthsun

I just started a thread on the 3C D and V thing.

JYT admires Japanese infection control greatly.

This is a Japanese elementary school. I think these are first graders so that means about 6 years old? They have masks, individual desks and perspex screens.

Could you recommend those for our schools please. JVT?

Jesus. You'd be happy with your child "learning" in an environment like that?

You might prefer this...

To be fair, those children will still go on to get better social and educational outcomes than British kids : guaranteed.

Every so often people hand wring about our stunted educational outcomes , and then proceed to be horrified by schooling.

@thaneofglamour

To be fair, those children will still go on to get better social and educational outcomes than British kids : guaranteed.

Every so often people hand wring about our stunted educational outcomes , and then proceed to be horrified by schooling.

Yes I am pretty horrified at the lack of interaction with other children. I don't see how their social outcomes can be better when they aren't allowed to socialise?

horrified by schooling in the most successful countries should have said.

Scant horror about the conditions and chronic underfunding of UK education.

@thaneofglamour

horrified by schooling in the most successful countries should have said.

Scant horror about the conditions and chronic underfunding of UK education.

I am horrified by underfunding but the solution is not that is it? Entirely unrelated. I'd love schools to have more funding. Wouldn't love them to spend it on essentially caging children.

Oh I wonder who complained about Miles’ wonderful post collating all the lovely things said about me.

Weirdly, some of the posts it quoted have now been deleted.

I don't think we would ever go down that road.Partway would be sufficient.

But the government pretends some of the non safe stuff is educational belief and proven pedagogy where it is really penny pinching and ideology.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

To be honest, I'd be ecstatic. They could go to school and I wouldn't have sleepless nights worrying about how they would cope if I died.

Schools that are safe and open. Living the dream.

""Just by looking at death numbers, you can say Japan was successful," Mikihito Tanaka, a professor at Waseda University, told Bloomberg last week. "But even experts don't know the reason."

A list of possible reasons circulating online includes an existing culture of mask-wearing, a lower rate of obesity, the government's early push to close schools, and a claim that speakers of Japanese emit fewer viral droplets than speakers of other languages."

[quote herecomesthsun]@TrustTheGeneGenie

To be honest, I'd be ecstatic. They could go to school and I wouldn't have sleepless nights worrying about how they would cope if I died.

Schools that are safe and open. Living the dream.

""Just by looking at death numbers, you can say Japan was successful," Mikihito Tanaka, a professor at Waseda University, told Bloomberg last week. "But even experts don't know the reason."

A list of possible reasons circulating online includes an existing culture of mask-wearing, a lower rate of obesity, the government's early push to close schools, and a claim that speakers of Japanese emit fewer viral droplets than speakers of other languages."[/quote]
You know plastic screens don't eradicate covid or Infact death itself?

Ok you want schools closed. Just say that? Plastic screens around children aren't the answer.

Don't worry noble.

I think I've taken the deleted ones out now:

‘MrsMiaWallis WouldBeGood MrsMigginsMate

‘Omg I'm actually chuckling to myself over this. Noble you are so defensive and so ready for a fight that you can't even see when someone supports you.’

‘It just doesn't seem worth the level of obsession when it has no practical effect whatsoever.’

‘you need your head examined.’

‘No. Schools are fine. Keep them open.

They can’t be that deadly as @noblegiraffe is still going strong months in. ‘

‘It’s quite disturbing to refer to oneself in the third person though.’

‘Why are you being flippant with the poster who said this can't be good for your mental health? This isn't the same as undermining you by questioning your mental health like you wrote in your first post so don't refer back to that as if they're doing what you predicted. Its a valid statement, and has to be true. You keep making these threads over and over as if people on Mumsnet somehow have the power to change things for you. People have written to their MPs but really that's the limit of what can be achieved when you keep the campaign to a single forum. I'm not sure it's going to change anything to keep on putting yourself forward to be verbally beaten up by the fringes when the vast majority here have already heard your evidence and agree with your position. In fact all it will probably achieve is frustration for you.’

‘Answer the question. Why are you ignoring it? Your OP implies people question your mental health as a way to undermine your argument and invalidate your position. The PP I refer to was not doing this. I was trying to explain that she had a reasonable point that continuing to be verbally abused online can't be good for anyone. This is not the same as saying you currently have a mental health issue that is affecting your viewpoint. Stop using this catchphrase as a way to tell people to "talk to the hand", it's such a silly way to get out of discussion especially when inappropriately used like this.

I actually agree with pretty much everything you say but by God you can be incredibly frustrating to read in some of these threads.’

‘I was trying to explain that someone commenting that these threads can't be good for noble's mental health is not necessarily undermining her, there could be a real impact on anybody's mental health when constantly faced with trolls online.’

‘As seems to the norm in these threads a lot of lurking posters are completely ignored when they try to interact....or torn apart for no reason. Its no wonder people are put off from engaging with the subject is it.’

‘Noone wants to shut you up noble, don't be paranoid.

You carry on posting if you want. It must be bloody exhausting though.’

‘Omg I'm actually chuckling to myself over this. Noble you are so defensive and so ready for a fight that you can't even see when someone supports you. I didn't say your thread was a pointless waste of time, I said limiting the campaign to Mumsnet can only achieve so much. The two are very different statements. And therefore I have not told you to shut up, I've pointed out a fact - for any of us posting online there will be a certain degree of abuse thrown at us and therefore it is not unreasonable for people to worry about this on your behalf if they support you.

This is why so many people are put off by these threads, there isn't much in the way of civil discussion to be had now it's descended into a warzone, anyone who dares stick their head above the parapet is piled on for often daft reasons that aren't really an issue.’

‘This isn't a campaign. It's a thread on mumsnet.’

‘Sometimes the things we need to hear aren't the things we like I'm afraid.’

‘I mean sure noble, you crack on. But it is clear that you are bothered by lots of people including me for some reason. shrug. ‘

I wouldn't have sleepless nights worrying about how they would cope if I died

Oh mate that’s horrible. I am so angry about how families like yours have been badly let down.

They can’t be that deadly as @noblegiraffe is still going strong months in

I think the hint of disappointment in this one makes it my favourite in a tough competition.

OP and all the teachers here: THANK YOU.
i am writing to my (ex-teacher) MP although don't hold out much hope...
My kids' teachers are absolute heroes.

Dear @noblegiraffe,
I fully support you. I have 2 dc in primary which I know is not the focus of the thread so apologies. DC2 has been sent home to isolate as there is a positive test in his bubble. So my first question was - well why the bloody hell aren't they testing every child in the bubble? We have a pop up test site or whatever they're called approx 10 minutes walk from the school. All kids who tested negative could be back in school now instead of me tearing my hair out trying to teach bloody phonics between calls.
Surely this is the kind of mass testing that would actually be of some value, rather than, I've got a runny nose, I should have a test?

Jesus. You'd be happy with your child "learning" in an environment like that?

Yes I am pretty horrified at the lack of interaction with other children. I don't see how their social outcomes can be better when they aren't allowed to socialise?

Trust

This is the danger of only seeing a snippet of a story. My nephew goes to a school that’s relatively recently started using screens. He’s already used to wearing a mask because Japan, and doesn’t seem bothered at all by the screens. Sounds like the teachers are really upbeat and not making a big deal out of it. I asked him if the screens were a bit weird, and he said “they’re alright, still have to study though which is rubbish.” He’s still wounded that his cousins here got 6 months at home and he only got a month and a bit.

What you also don’t see in that picture is that at playtime they’re outside, running, mingling, yelling, playing, having fun.

And what you also don’t see in that picture is that there are no restrictions where he lives, so he can see his friends at the weekends. Meanwhile over here, ds cant go to his friends house at the weekend to hang out and chat and play games. The only time they get together is 20 minute break time and 40 minute lunchtime at school.

Which one is better for their mental health?