noblegiraffe wants SAFER schools not closed schools. Do you?

[noblegiraffe]

I'm sure my username in the title will be a red rag to a bull but anyway, if it's there it can't be denied any more. As you'll be aware if you've spent much time on this section, I post regularly about the situation in schools, particularly secondary schools (my patch). Secondary school children are the most infected subset of the population and lack of mitigation measures in schools is causing chaos. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55145313

I have consistently argued for improving mitigation measures in schools in order to reduce transmission, keep schools open for more pupils and to make them safer for teachers, school staff, and vulnerable pupils.

On these threads I have been routinely abused. I've my mental health called into question, my suitability as a teacher, whether I am harming my pupils by being concerned about school safety. I've been questioned as to whether I'm actually a teacher, whether I work for a union or have some secret agenda (aside from my openly stated one to widen awareness of the school situation and my desire for improved safety). The constant refrain has been that I want schools closed. Firstly I was openly told that I wanted schools closed, then that I secretly wanted schools closed. The data I was posting was so bad that it must be a stealth campaign to close schools. That making schools safer is impossible (such a can't-do attitude) so arguing to make them safer is an argument to close them.

And now, there's just this lie constantly posted that there's a massive campaign on MN to close schools. Posts on threads about a 'vocal poster' (i.e. me) who is constantly arguing for this, with an 'echo chamber' of teachers agreeing. It's horseshit.

I think there's a group of posters who see this as a bit of fun. Posting crap and winding up teachers is some sort of weird hobby for them. They have no skin in the game.

But this isn't a game. It's not a hypothetical argument. It's a genuine health and safety issue. I've seen colleagues go down with covid after spending time in classrooms with positive cases. I know a teacher who has been off for months having had it. Fellow teachers on here are catching it. One had to be blue-lighted to hospital. Teachers and school workers are in intensive care or sadly dying. We don't know how many, because this data isn't being published. We don't know how many teachers are off school, because the DfE have deliberately stopped publishing that data.

The situation in schools is not safe. It can be made safer. If you think 'but my school is safe, we've had no/few cases', then please be aware of how quickly things can change, and maybe getting preventative measures in beforehand might be desirable.

My top wish list is:

Mass testing in schools. Particularly when there is a positive case the whole bubble should be tested, to enable effective and targeted isolation and to flush out asymptomatic cases.

Scrapping the policy of only sending home close contacts. It's not working. Relying on children with covid to display the three main adult symptoms is pathetically unreliable as a way of identifying cases and isolating at-risk students. Testing should replace this.

Masks in secondary classrooms (with obvious exemptions and workarounds where needed. This is managed internationally, why should we not be able to?).

Funding for schools to improve ventilation where inadequate and for extra heating to keep the windows open.

No fines for ECV families.

Transparency around schools data, regularly published so the government can be held properly to account.

I don't want schools to close. I want them to be made safer so that they stay open longer to more pupils. If you agree with the premise, parent or teacher, even if you have a different wish list of how to achieve this, please post in support.

Thank you.

Close to Hull here. My council has decided to do "targeted testing" instead of mass testing.

Schools and school staff are not on the list to be targeted.

Oh wow nellodee. How contrary!

We still haven't received the results from the mass testing in ten schools in Liverpool, have we? I've looked everywhere, but can't see anything following the news about needing parental consent.

The more general population results seemed to come back almost immediately, though.

Does anyone local know anything about it?

[quote timeforanewstart]@Itisasecret I want schools to stay open as my ds is in year 11 and expected to sit exams in a few months , in fact has btech one in feb
I also think its better for the majority to be in school
If that makes me selfish then so be it , of course I want them safe but other than write to my Mp what else can I do on a personal level.
And yes it makes me wonder why some schools put in measures which others don't seem to be.
I am impressed by what my son school has done and think they have done the best they possibly can under the guidelines they have been given , a previous poster said there school doesn't enforce mask wearing in corridors , in a situation like that , that is on the school.
Lack of windows obviously not [/quote]
I have a Yr 11 and Yr 13 do what do I win? I want schools open. It doesn’t mean I cannot see the absolute decimation being done to the equality gap. A collapsing mental health service who cannot deal with all these mental health crises. Many exam year children are facing severe disruption. I mean even Ofsted have woken up and smelt the coffee in regards to schools. Their report is actually pretty awful. Just because you can’t see it happening doesn’t mean it isn’t, yes it is selfish not to acknowledge the difficulties other children are facing. Yes it is selfish to not understand that schools are unsafe or turn a blind eye to the risk of staff for your benefit.

Unless you work in a school, you have absolutely no idea of hidden pressures or the effort behind the scenes. Easy to talk about it from a computer day and night.

I think now even Ofsted are piping up, the government mouthpiece after all, we may see change. Finally.

I am impressed by what my son school has done and think they have done the best they possibly can under the guidelines they have been given , a previous poster said there school doesn't enforce mask wearing in corridors , in a situation like that , that is on the school.

No. That’s is on the government who, until a few weeks ago, where still advising schools not to enforce mask wearing.

If the government had issued safer guidelines and funding to do so, earlier, when they had the chance, schools by now would have found it easier to implement these measures as the norm.

@ILikebeanswithketchup

Bingo.

What isn't good for teachers' mental health is the constant gaslighting, the lack of honesty and ,frankly, the propaganda machine from government and the DfE.,and the complete lack of certainty about GCSEs and A Levels, coupled with working in often unsafe and chaotic conditions.

Absolutely. There are posters on MN who despise teachers and do all they can to inflict hurt for some twisted reasons of their own.

All praise to Noble for rising above it and keeping to the facts.

@ChloeDecker

I am impressed by what my son school has done and think they have done the best they possibly can under the guidelines they have been given , a previous poster said there school doesn't enforce mask wearing in corridors , in a situation like that , that is on the school.

No. That’s is on the government who, until a few weeks ago, where still advising schools not to enforce mask wearing.

If the government had issued safer guidelines and funding to do so, earlier, when they had the chance, schools by now would have found it easier to implement these measures as the norm.

Yes. As well as my dd’s school, until a few weeks ago when guidance changed one local school attended by my son’s friend actually banned the kids from wearing masks.

I think this is where Boris's schools policy is from. except it is the teachers and CEV families that are expendable

www.spectator.co.uk/article/my-boris-johnson-story

'Which is why my political hero is the Mayor from JAWS.'

Laughter.

'Yes. Because he KEPT THE BEACHES OPEN.'

More guffawing around me. He spoke as if every sentence had only just occurred to him, and each new thought came as a surprise.

'Yes, he REPUDIATED, he FORESWORE and he ABROGATED all these silly regulations on health and safety and declared that the people should SWIM! SWIM!'

More uproar.

'Now, I accept,' he went on in an uncertain tone, 'that as a result some small children were eaten by a shark. But how much more pleasure did the MAJORITY get from those beaches as a result of the boldness of the Mayor in Jaws?'

Brilliant. The whole room is hooting and cheering.

Agreed

My only challenges would be in what order and volume (Eg mass testing is great but there are also other priorities like care homes, masks is an obvious one)

And provision across schools does vary and it’s not all down to money. SLT aren’t consistent. You will find that This influences support for the situation

But overall a deliberate ignorance of the situation by the government is the main factor

Hopefully the initial Pfizer vaccine will be given to teachers then this issue won't be one any more.

@middleager it's a primary school that my little DD goes to - but each teacher has a head scanning thermometer and does their own class on the way in - surely the same could apply at secondary? They manage it in places like S Korea and presumably they have large schools in cities.

Good point though - logistics of these things need thinking about.

I'm always surprised that GP surgeries and school nurses aren't more involved in this sort of planning (though maybe they are and I'm just not seeing it).

I agree with you op. Schools do need to be safer for everyone.

I did emajl school before they went back asking if they needed us to provide sanitiser or even send in hand soap for toilets etc and would be happy to donate masks. Not that this should come from parents , all schools should of been given extra budget to buy these things or provided with them

Yes me too and I keep reminding both schools that we are happy to help financially if it would enable better safety, but my strong sense is - from what the headteachers are saying - that they feel their hands are tied by DfE directive and cannot go against that without penalty.

The DfE are forcing schools who'd like to be safer to be less safe.

For example, one school was offered a community space free of charge to help with social distancing but DfE have said a flat no - even though this space is already used for school events in normal times.

I KNOW my older DD's school would be safer if they had more money and were allowed - because with more money in June/July they halved class sizes and had smaller bubbles and proper social distancing. If they had the money, they'd do this again (it was better educationally too).

It is disgusting that the DfE is not funding schools adequately.

...as an aside - this thread has convinced me that were Mother Teresa or Mahatma Gandhi alive and on MN there would be loads of people questioning their mental health and motives.... apparently there will always be some people who can't believe a good person is trying to do something good....

That sounds proactive Ilove
My son's obvious Covid symptom was his temperature.

A friend works at a gym that has some sort of air purifying machine that clients walk through when entering the gym (sorry, not explaining it well). Obviously that one would not be in the school budget, but it sounds like we are way behind some countries.

@Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady

I agree with you.

But as a CV parent with a CV partner, I would also like the option for my child to do online learning without having to de register him.

@Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady

Agree. I’ve had to de register BOTH of mine. Due to my CEV child being fine to keep her. But not their sibling. I couldn’t risk it.

People saying they couldn’t test every pupil

When Covid first broke out. I heard of a country testing 100% of people. They then told the positive people to isolate and the rest carried on. Those positive people stayed in till the test became negative. The economy didn’t stop. Work didn’t stop. Retail didn’t stop.

If only we could of done that. If a whole country could do that. Then why couldn’t we?

@Happyheartlovelife

People saying they couldn’t test every pupil

When Covid first broke out. I heard of a country testing 100% of people. They then told the positive people to isolate and the rest carried on. Those positive people stayed in till the test became negative. The economy didn’t stop. Work didn’t stop. Retail didn’t stop.

If only we could of done that. If a whole country could do that. Then why couldn’t we?

Because the uk government is charge and they couldn't organise a piss up In a brewery

Can I ask a question? What penalties can the DofE dish out to schools for non-compliance of what are, actually, only guidelines.

There are so many stories of schools who are doing their own thing, apart from the physical limitations of space in many schools, or non-opening windows, etc etc, how are these other schools apparently going against advice with no apparent penalty?

As ever, you talk perfect sense, @noblegiraffe.

My sister is a HCP. Would normally be working in the community but hasn’t been allowed to since March. Their office have lateral flow tests for staff use.

She woke up this morning feeling rough and had her test result before noon.

I know other people in the police having regular testing that picks up asymptomatic cases.

Why can’t we?

"Cos glorified babysitters or unions or summat"

In other words those in charge don't think it is important enough for them.

It would probably require a visit form the HSE. Guess what? They aren't doing school visits at the moment....too risky.

Why haven’t we had any updates on the mass testing in schools in Liverpool yet.
Sure as hell if they hadn’t uncovered any asymptomatic cases it would be all over the news telling us how safe schools are.
Instead it’s not being shared just like the manipulated school data. The great school cover up.
Well done Noble for keeping this going.

I know other people in the police having regular testing that picks up asymptomatic cases.

Why can’t we?

I think the government can't do anything that even slightly admits that there might be a problem in schools because then the floodgates will open. So they have to keep covering up the data and bullying any school that tries to keep their community safe into submission. As well as banning schools closing early for Christmas, they've also stopped INSET days in the last week, and there seems to be a suggestion that any parent who takes their child out in the last week should not be given any remote learning.

Why haven’t we had any updates on the mass testing in schools in Liverpool yet.

Why have they stopped reporting teacher absence data?

Why are there no plans to repeat the deaths by occupation data published in May?

Why was the teacher infection risk data fiddled to make it look better than it is?

Why are they telling parents to only get children tested with the 3 main symptoms?

Why did they use data from lockdown to try to prove that schools would be safe now?

Why are they suggesting that so many children are off school because 'too many' are being sent home rather than the rising infection rates?

Why are the media not reporting any of this properly?