So the vaccine is going to be compulsory then?

[Gigheimer]

There was a thread ages ago about the fact people were being tin foil hat about a vaccine being compulsory.

Latest news out they are considering “vaccine passports”, which lets face it, on our news cycle throughout this entire thing it’s been ... prepare them gently with maybes, odd leak here or there, test the messaging, oh look the guesses were right

So no one is going to pin anyone down and spear them, but it’s basically the same thing. If you can’t enter a shop/leisure/work place domestically without a vaccine. It’s fucking compulsory.

Where did free will go? Where did vaccine uptake because we have trust go? I’m not anti-vaccine, had them all, even TB. But this isn’t on I terms of civil liberties. Does no one else feel concern at a general use of this crisis into nanny state?

@SheepandCow Are you looking at the CFR? The IFR is < 0.0015 in under 40s, 0.002-0.0035% in 40-50s increasing to 0.01% in 50-60s. Yes, the risk is higher in over 40s but it’s still not a very high risk.

@trulydelicious Yep, madness. 🙄Hopefully that opinion will change if things are brought under control in the next few months by the first rollout. They can hardly continue to justify mass vaccination if fatalities have dropped considerably with only a small proportion of the population being vaccinated. I’m not sure they’d have much enthusiasm if it turns out to not be as effective/need frequent boosters either. We’ll have to wait and see.

The trouble is... there's too many out there of the mindset ...
'I'm sure I've had covid'.

Me - did you get a positive test?
'No. But I had a really strange cough and felt yuk'

You haven't necessarily had it then!

My NDNs are both convinced they've had it. Weren't tested but remain convinced. That might explain why they haven't bothered much with lockdown...

Yes, rousette, it’s a shame that testing has been so crap. We’d have a much better idea of where we were if it had been better. Maybe the new mass testing campaigns will reveal a bit more. I’d be interested to see results from school based testing! I’m sure it would be even higher than the levels that have been found at universities.

Lets face it, rolling out a mass vaccination program takes time and effort. Judging by the chaos so far over PPE and test and trace I have very little confidence that this will be done quickly. I think we are looking at the middle of next year before all the over 60s (those who want it) have been done. After that they will get around to the remainder of the population. So restricting access to such facilities as shops, public transport etc within the near future is a non starter.

With a program that rolls out so slowly who is going to be travelling on all those empty buses, planes and trains if you are denied access without evidence of a jab?

I also foresee a lively trade in fake vaccination documents on the dark web as you can already get almost any other document on there - for a price.

If anyone wants or needs a job there's loads out there to do with this rolling out of the vaccine, especially at hospitals (not just calling nurses back, admin positions too) and if you're desperate for the vaccine but low down 'the list', I would imagine you would get it because of doing this.

There was an admin job I could do standing on my head but now just retired so don't want to go back.

@Roussette

If anyone wants or needs a job there's loads out there to do with this rolling out of the vaccine, especially at hospitals (not just calling nurses back, admin positions too) and if you're desperate for the vaccine but low down 'the list', I would imagine you would get it because of doing this. There was an admin job I could do standing on my head but now just retired so don't want to go back.

My DD is at uni doing a degree in OT (currently on placement on an alzeimer ward) and has already been contacted for a p/t job to do the vaccinations

"The trouble is... there's too many out there of the mindset ...
'I'm sure I've had covid'.
Me - did you get a positive test?
'No. But I had a really strange cough and felt yuk'"

Unfortunately having a positive test is no guarantee of having had the virus either (especially if you had few symptoms) as the false positive rates are unknown and ignored. Apparently the newer test is more reliable. The former was never designed to be a tool for diagnosis on its own.

I'm just glad we don't have polio or smallpox, there are all the poor MMR kids who missed out.

@sneakysnoopysniper

Lets face it, rolling out a mass vaccination program takes time and effort. Judging by the chaos so far over PPE and test and trace I have very little confidence that this will be done quickly. I think we are looking at the middle of next year before all the over 60s (those who want it) have been done. After that they will get around to the remainder of the population. So restricting access to such facilities as shops, public transport etc within the near future is a non starter.

With a program that rolls out so slowly who is going to be travelling on all those empty buses, planes and trains if you are denied access without evidence of a jab?

I also foresee a lively trade in fake vaccination documents on the dark web as you can already get almost any other document on there - for a price.

I think you are right but it will invalidate holiday insurance and possible life insurance applications.

On another thread, seems like the promised amount by the company has already been halved for this year for delivery.

I'm a panelist on many consumer research panels, including you.gov, politicoEU, This morning alone I have completed 5 different surveys for a variety of these companies all asking my opinion on the compulsory part. Plus many of the sites have this question as a stand alone members internal poll.

There are trials. starting using plasma and NHS. are. looking for donations from those who have had COVID 19. either confirmed or symptoms.
For more details
www.nhsbt.nhs.uk/covid-19-research/plasma-donors/who-can-donate-plasma/

I will be having it if offered, though will likely be back of the queue due to age and health (ill but nothing that would make me high risk for covid). However, it clearly will be 'mandatory' IF you have to have prove you have it before being able to partake in public life. I am not to sure how I feel about that, but the denial that that does make it mandatory in reality (though not in name) is a little silly to me.

There is a Parliament petition currently open to prevent any restrictions on those who refuse a Covid-19 vaccination

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/323442

Out of (genuine!) interest, to anyone who does their research. The statement is that the vaccine hasn’t in any way missed any step of pre-testing from being “rushed”.

Yet the affects on fertility tests actually haven’t been done. Meaning they can’t state it won’t affect fertility. Tests in pregnancy and kids also not done, but that’s fine as you can just avoid giving to pregnant mothers and kids! But you can’t avoid everyone of fertile age.

Is that usual?

Yet the affects on fertility tests actually haven’t been done. Meaning they can’t state it won’t affect fertility. Tests in pregnancy and kids also not done, but that’s fine as you can just avoid giving to pregnant mothers and kids! But you can’t avoid everyone of fertile age.

Is that usual?

No, not unusual. There would have been women of childbearing age in the phase III trials and some of them could have gotten pregnant. Any hypothetical effect on fertility would presumably emerge as long term data got collected, as it would for cancer incidence, bone density, etc. And it's not a known risk for any other vaccine that I'm aware of.

Were you assuming that they'd do a double blind trial and give the vaccine to a large number of women trying to get pregnant to see if it made any difference in fertility compared to a control arm who were not vaccinated?

Wouldn't they test that aspect on animals normally though?

They make new flu vaccines each year and give them to women of childbearing age with asthma etc. I don't think they've ever found any evidence of the vaccines affecting fertility. I can't see any logical reason why it would - it's giving your immune system something that looks like the virus so it can do its thing and make antibodies. There's no reason why that would have anything to do with fertility. Long Covid, on the other hand, can be quite debilitating, might affect fertility and certainly your ability to care for a small child. Covid during pregnancy isn't great either. So by avoiding the vaccine for that reason you'd be avoiding what isn't even a theoretical risk and putting yourself at risk of a very real one.

No they do the tests on animals, it specifically says they skipped that step.

Wrong photo

@Firefliess

I think it would be helpful if we stopped comparing these new vaccines with existing ones (e.g. flu) and drawing conclusions this way

These vaccines are new and the technology they use is new as well

Just wondering if that’s usual, plays into the “isn’t rushed all testing done” argument.

Firefliess the guidance specifically says not to give in pregnancy and not to become pregnant within two months of vaccination due to it being untested. Which is rational.

That’s from the .gov site by the way.

The way they have made the new vaccine is new. But the way it tricks your immune system into recognising the virus that's the same shape as it is exactly the same as other vaccines. Avoiding it while pregnant is probably a sensible precaution, because it's only a short delay in getting it, and only a small proportion of women at pregnant at any one time, so there won't be much impact on the speed at which herd immunity can be achieved. But avoiding it because you might want to have children some time in the future and think it might damage your fertility is less sensible, and puts you at much greater risk of catching Covid itself. You'd have to avoid it for years/decades.

@Firefliess

But the way it tricks your immune system into recognising the virus that's the same shape as it is exactly the same as other vaccines.

Do you think all vaccines have exactly the same components and work in exactly the same way? Because they don't