Test and Trace is 'working on making immunity passports to allow Brits to prove they have been vaccinated against Covid-19 using NHS app'

[trulydelicious]

Just seen this

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9000479/Test-Trace-working-making-immunity-passports.html#reader-comments

This is getting out of control now in my view and all this rethoric is disturbing and irresponsible.

Nobody should be coerced into having vaccines:

1. that use new technology
2. for which long term side effects are not known (precisely because the technology for most of them is new)
3. when pharmaceutical companies producing them are bearing no responsibility for potential side effects

The vaccines should not be touted as a 'passport' to recoup our 'freedoms'

Just to clarify, I'm not anti-vaxx (we have had all childhood vaccines and the flu vaccine)

Much safer to get tested before travelling. Vaccines don’t necessarily give you immunity.

@Crazycatlady83

Surely the answer is education? Just think what has been done with smoking which was once very popular and mainstream and the majority didn’t want to stop.
I honestly don’t think when push comes to shove that many will decline. I’m personally looking forward to the day when I’m not constantly anxious that o might be passing on something that could make somebody very unwell

Given that the Govt have only order 7 million doses of assorted vaccines and the population numbers 68million plus then it would be grossly unfair for them to block the freedoms of unvaccinated people any further,

No, the government have ordered over 300 million doses of assorted vaccines; 7 million of those are the Moderna vaccine.

I think most people will take the vaccine and that will be the way out of this. I don't understand why the government think they have to coerce people into taking a vaccine. That will probably cause more harm than good. I have no particular objections to the vaccine and will probably take it when my turn comes but I strongly object to people being effectively forced to take it.

Nappyvalley15 why do you think the government are coercing people into being vaccinated?

[quote BungleandGeorge]@Crazycatlady83

Surely the answer is education? Just think what has been done with smoking which was once very popular and mainstream and the majority didn’t want to stop.
I honestly don’t think when push comes to shove that many will decline. I’m personally looking forward to the day when I’m not constantly anxious that o might be passing on something that could make somebody very unwell[/quote]
I agree education has to be at the forefront of this. I’m not sure that is winning out though (or do a spend too much time on social media)!

The governments position for months has been “we might not ever get a vaccine”, “we don’t know when it’s coming” “we don’t know how long immunity will last” etc etc.,

Whilst the anti vax “campaign” has been going to months (years really in relation to other vaccines!) and the government now seem massively behind on this.

I worry about vulnerable people who can’t take the vaccine and will rely on others around then. I worry about people who have listened to the noise of anti vac and may be vulnerable, but won’t take the vaccine or speak to a professional.

Would like to see more from the government (the story of this pandemic so probably wishful thinking!) Hoping they have a PR campaign ready for when it’s approved!

@Redolent

But but but...muh forrin holidays!

Plenty of destinations will start imposing restrictions on non vaccinated travellers. Get used to it. You will probably get the option of paying for a private test anyway.

and on that note: remember visa's?

@loulouljh

What if someone cannot have a vaccine?

Like in other situations there will be exemptions I should imagine.

Other countries and private businesses can choose their own requirements surely?

You already need to have certain vaccinations to visit some countries. Many years ago I had to have the Yellow Fever vaccination to go to Kenya. We were given a stamped certificate for our passports to prove we'd had it.

Why is this any different?

Quantas has already said you have to have had the vaccination to fly with them. That's their choice.

If you want to travel and you are not medically exempt then you have a choice: vaccinate and go, don't vaccinate and don't go.

Re business travel - its still the individuals choice. If they are not medically exempt then they can make a decision. If they refuse to vaccinate then it may be that they simply cannot do parts of the job. If that is a requirement of the job then they may need to decide if they are suitable for that post.

@trulydelicious

Or someone who has to travel to assist a relative for instance

Who would be more worthy of having their health protected? Those on the plane who cannot get vaccinated or those who fear their health will be damaged by the vaccine but would need to travel anyway?

Do you have the same concerns about countries who already have entry requirements, such as those which require visitors to their country having had a Yellow Fever vaccination?

The problems airlines will have is they have a duty of care to their staff (and other customers) If a staff member is exempt and can’t have the vaccine, I can imagine an airline not wanting you giving that staff member covid cos you don’t want the vaccine

@Crazycatlady83 The way out is for the vulnerable people to have the vaccine and the rest of us to get on with our lives the way we do for most illnesses with similar IFRs. The whole point of the lockdown and restrictions was to reduce pressure on the nhs. If the groups that are most likely to end up in hospital are protected then that will achieve that. The rest of us can decide whether we want to be vaccinated or take our chances with becoming infected with the virus - either way will result in immunity that contributes to herd immunity.

I’m really surprised how many people on these threads think that only the vaccine confers immunity and that natural infection does not.

@bumbleymummy I'm really surprised that after being on this thread for as long as you have, you still haven't absorbed the fact that many vulnerable people CANNOT have the vaccination due to being vulnerable.

The yellow fever vaccine has been around a lot longer than the new covid 19 vaccine so people who choose to have it can fins out about any potential long term side effects.

Honestly how many times does it have to be said - not all vulnerable people can have the vaccine and therefore they rely on others not infecting them!

@bumbleymummy
Which other disease has a similar IFR in your opinion? And what do you think the IFR is for Covid?

@Crazycatlady83

Gov are so behind with some sort of pr campaign. We need frequent documentaries, features on this morning etc, information leaflets. A few celebs saying they’ve had it done.. Not just about covid but about all vaccines. It is worrying, there are some extremely vocal anti- vaxxers who are so ill informed. I think some of them probably have other medical diagnoses tbh. I still think they will be a small minority. Some people will need some convincing though. I think many HCP having it themselves will be quite a powerful message (although there’s also some anti-vax HCP😫)

@Crazycatlady83

Honestly how many times does it have to be said - not all vulnerable people can have the vaccine and therefore they rely on others not infecting them!

But that goes for lots of things. Seasonal flu for example (not as dangerous as covid 19), and chicken pox. We don't vaccinate everyone for those to protect vulnerable people. Should we?

From the information released about covid vaccine the side effects completely pale into insignificance against yellow fever vaccine! Which pale into insignificance against yellow fever itself.

Does anyone know how long the new covid 19 vaccines give you immunity for?

@BungleandGeorge

From the information released about covid vaccine the side effects completely pale into insignificance against yellow fever vaccine! Which pale into insignificance against yellow fever itself.

Sure, but we can't possibly know about any potential long term side effects until a long time has passed.

My child get a flu vaccine purely to protect the community around them, it wasn’t introduced to protect children. Flu itself isn’t the danger it’s secondary infections, which we have treatments for, we also have antivirals for chicken pox so they aren’t quite the same as covid in that respect

@musicalfrog as is the case for other diseases that we don’t all have to be vaccinated for/prove our vaccination status. Eg flu. Some people can’t be vaccinated against it but we don’t vaccinate the entire population to protect them. Chickenpox can be deadly to vulnerable adults but we don’t insist that people be vaccinated against it to protect them. Herd immunity from natural infection is considered good enough for that.

@TheSunIsStillShining IFR for different ages from the BMJ

I’m not sure why people are still comparing covid to seasonal flu! Covid isn’t the flu! If it was the flu, we wouldn’t have lockdown! We locked down because covid isn’t the flu!

chicken pox has killed millions of people globally so I would suggest also not the same as covid

You can use computer models to predict long term effects using the biology of human beings. It’s not a total unknown although you couldn’t completely rule out an idiosyncratic reaction. Are there any vaccines which have shown delayed reactions in the order of a few years?

*hasnt