Test and Trace is 'working on making immunity passports to allow Brits to prove they have been vaccinated against Covid-19 using NHS app'

[trulydelicious]

Just seen this

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9000479/Test-Trace-working-making-immunity-passports.html#reader-comments

This is getting out of control now in my view and all this rethoric is disturbing and irresponsible.

Nobody should be coerced into having vaccines:

1. that use new technology
2. for which long term side effects are not known (precisely because the technology for most of them is new)
3. when pharmaceutical companies producing them are bearing no responsibility for potential side effects

The vaccines should not be touted as a 'passport' to recoup our 'freedoms'

Just to clarify, I'm not anti-vaxx (we have had all childhood vaccines and the flu vaccine)

@BungleandGeorge

You can use computer models to predict long term effects using the biology of human beings.

You want to base vaccine safety on a computer model? Are you serious?

@frozendaisy

Your response comes across as very patronising

My point was around policy mainly.

My GP will not a definite medical answer at this point about long term side effects as these are new vaccines.

@BungleandGeorge

Gov are so behind with some sort of pr campaign. We need frequent documentaries, features on this morning etc, information leaflets. A few celebs saying they’ve had it done.

This is happening already.

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/nov/29/nhs-enlist-sensible-celebrities-coronavirus-vaccine-take-up

So, instead of making sure that vaccines are safe and that companies will be liable for any damage they cause, we enlist instagramers and religious leaders to try and convince people who are rightfully worried. Brilliant!

[quote bumbleymummy]@JS87 “ We do vaccinate children against flu to protect the vulnerable as they are one of the main drivers of infection”

We offer it to them but plenty of parents choose not to give it to their children and we don’t demand proof of vaccination from them or prevent them from travelling because of it.

@TheSunIsStillShining You are stating the overall IFR - it is lower in younger people and higher in older people.

Yes, we do have vaccines for flu and cp (just as we now have (several) for cv). We don’t require proof of having them or restrict people’s movement for not having them.[/quote]
The IFR of flu and covid are not the same. Covid is still higher.
I would welcome a system where you can only travel if you had a vaccine. Just imagine: you know you'll minimized the risk of breathing in a pathogen on a 2/5/7 hour flight. I still don't see the problem.

People's movements are limited by money. Yet nobody is up in arms about ticket prices. What's the difference?

People's movements are limited by money. Yet nobody is up in arms about ticket prices. What's the difference?
Quite a lot.

[quote trulydelicious]@BungleandGeorge

You can use computer models to predict long term effects using the biology of human beings.

You want to base vaccine safety on a computer model? Are you serious?[/quote]
This is standard in drug trials. If you look at drug structure in relation to physiology you can predict a lot, it’s not as if the effect on the body is totally random. We don’t understand it all yet but Obviously you want to come up with the safest and most efficacious option before you try it on volunteers. Once upon a time it might have been that somebody chewed on a bit of willow bark and discovered it eased their toothache but we synthesise the majority of drugs now, rather than extract them from natural sources.
No good HCP will ever tell you a vaccine or drug is 100% safe. It is always a case of risk v benefit. Covid kills and causes long term effects, it’s also having a very substantial effect on everyday life. What level of risk outweighs that?

[quote trulydelicious]@frozendaisy

Your response comes across as very patronising

My point was around policy mainly.

My GP will not a definite medical answer at this point about long term side effects as these are new vaccines.[/quote]
No your first three starting points were about the vaccine, new technology, long term effects, which sound like medical concerns to me.

Your GP and pharmacist will likely be as up to date informed person you are able to voice your concerns to in real life as you said "you are truly concerned" so really to put your mind at rest or make an informed decision talk to an expert.

Yes it seems vaccination certificates will become a reality for certain activities, probably on your phone, so they can track your location, movements, who you meet, what you eat, what you buy they can sell the information to Bill Gates and he can then rule the world. Big brother is watching us and wants to jab nanobots in our arms.

But you can say no thank you.

I've just seen on the front pages of tomorrow's papers that it could be that unless you have had the vaccine then pubs & hospitality may be able to refuse entry. This makes me feel very uneasy, what if you are someone unable to have the vaccine? Does this mean unless you are prepared to discuss your private medical needs with a hotel or pub you can't go in?

@Thegentleman

WTFU...... are peoples instincts not by now screaming to them something does not add up.

That's been obvious to me since March This isn't about a virus

@Nat6999

I've just seen on the front pages of tomorrow's papers that it could be that unless you have had the vaccine then pubs & hospitality may be able to refuse entry. This makes me feel very uneasy, what if you are someone unable to have the vaccine? Does this mean unless you are prepared to discuss your private medical needs with a hotel or pub you can't go in?

Just the press winding people up again.

You will be able to get a exemption certificate from your GP. It's unlikely to disclose your reason for exemption so your personal medical will remain private.

@Thegentleman

WTFU...... are peoples instincts not by now screaming to them something does not add up.

Lord no the amount of people who would have know about this and keep quiet if this was a global conspiracy is unimaginable!

You think not one of them would spill the beans?

The thought of religious leaders potentially using emotional blackmail to make people take a new vaccine that may harm them (and yes, it is a possibility, nobody knows at present) is revolting really

@frozendaisy

sell the information to Bill Gates

Why do you bring up all this conspiracy nonsense to taint opinions of people you do not agree with?

[quote trulydelicious]@frozendaisy

sell the information to Bill Gates

Why do you bring up all this conspiracy nonsense to taint opinions of people you do not agree with?[/quote]
Because conspiracy nonsense can be dangerous.

Many people are not listening to facts because they think the scientists will release an unsafe vaccine into the population.

Many people listen to sound bite journalists whom are very good with words and get confused and scared and think the WHO don't know what they are talking about.

And it's dangerous remember "people are sick of listening to experts" why would anyone not want to listen to an expert in their field?

I didn't actually disagree with your concerns I only suggested you talk them through with your GP and/or pharmacist. They will know more.

Whether a vaccine is safe or not, some people may not want to be vaccinated. The flu and chicken pox vaccines may be perfectly safe but I choose not to have them - Flu because I’m low risk and cp because I’ve had it and am immune.

I wouldn't be having the vaccine because something as simple as Flu vaccine nearly put me in hospital two years running & left me with pneumonia. There are thousands of people in this country who suffer from autoimmune conditions who may react to the vaccine like me, I can go years without suffering a cold but give me the flu vaccine & within a week I have pneumonia.

Private companies - and other countries - have always had the right to deny entry for all sorts of reasons. From minor things like dress code, i.e. no trainers, to the amount of money in your bank account to requiring (expensive for many) photo ID in the form of passports. That's just how it goes. It's their country or company, their rules.

Don't like it? Don't go. It's not compulsory.

In any event all this is rather irrelevant. For the time being there isn't enough vaccine doses to go round for those who want protection against death and disability. Don't worry, nobody will be forced to have something that's in high demand but very short supply!

I just want to know if the UK is planning on buying vaccines for the entire population, even the ones who don't need it, to the detriment of supplies for other countries? Because there is no way that 9 billion vaccines will be manufactured any time soon.

Does this mean unless you are prepared to discuss your private medical needs with a hotel or pub you can't go in?

Surely this is where the app comes into play, you have a medical exemption status put on by your doctor and that's all you need to show. It wouldn't require you to say any more than that.

[quote trulydelicious]@BungleandGeorge

You can use computer models to predict long term effects using the biology of human beings.

You want to base vaccine safety on a computer model? Are you serious?[/quote]
This is what happens when you don’t read the words.
Saying that you can use computer models to predict long term effects of vaccines on humans is not the same as saying vaccine safety protocols are based solely on computer models.

@Nat6999

I wouldn't be having the vaccine because something as simple as Flu vaccine nearly put me in hospital two years running & left me with pneumonia. There are thousands of people in this country who suffer from autoimmune conditions who may react to the vaccine like me, I can go years without suffering a cold but give me the flu vaccine & within a week I have pneumonia.

I’m interested to know how you’d react if you had flu or covid with an autoimmune disease? I presume it would’ve worse than your reaction to the vaccine? Is the thought process just that you’d try to avoid getting the virus too? Presumably then for people with autoimmunity you’d benefit from as many other people as possible being vaccinated? I just don’t see how a reaction to the vaccine would be worse than a reaction to the virus? This isn’t a critical post, I’m interested to know.

The whole of the airline industry worldwide want this l read yesterday.

They certainly need something to break out of the current crisis..agreed vaccination protocols, raid testing..anything...

According to some sources I've been looking at over 15000 pilots in Europe alone, plus heaven knows how many others worldwide, plus Cabin Crew and countless airline ground staff, plus ancillary staff around airports have quietly been laid off since March. Many crew/ground staff still in work are only being kept gainfully employed by flying urgent freight around the globe (including PPE and pharmaceuticals into the UK).

Fat fingers - rapid testing