Test and Trace is 'working on making immunity passports to allow Brits to prove they have been vaccinated against Covid-19 using NHS app'

[trulydelicious]

Just seen this

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9000479/Test-Trace-working-making-immunity-passports.html#reader-comments

This is getting out of control now in my view and all this rethoric is disturbing and irresponsible.

Nobody should be coerced into having vaccines:

1. that use new technology
2. for which long term side effects are not known (precisely because the technology for most of them is new)
3. when pharmaceutical companies producing them are bearing no responsibility for potential side effects

The vaccines should not be touted as a 'passport' to recoup our 'freedoms'

Just to clarify, I'm not anti-vaxx (we have had all childhood vaccines and the flu vaccine)

@Nappyvalley15

So every time you go to the shops or a restaurant you need to scan your phone to say you have been vaccinated? Doesn't it seem a little dystopian? A little bit like living in a black mirror episode? What happens when the computer says no?

It’s highly dystopian, but then we’ve never lived through a global pandemic like this. There have been pandemics before, but not in anyone’s lifetime.

No one likes the idea of being scanned or whatever, but I’d do it if it meant I could visit my elderly Dad who’s clinically vulnerable.

We’re all on databases, CCTV, etc. anyway. No one’s really untraceable unless they’re living off-grid.

We’re all on databases, CCTV, etc. anyway. No one’s really untraceable unless they’re living off-grid

Exactly. You've probably already handed a lot over to Mumsnet in order to post about these things too!

Yes but you have never needed to be scanned to access the basics you need to live in your own society. Food, a job, etc. Is that what people really want?

That's not what they are doing though, the thread was originally about some quite sensible protective measures regarding travel and leisure. No one is microchipping you.

Nobody is making you take the vaccine. However you may face restrictions if you dont.

The vaccines for a virus like this have been worked on for over 10 years. Look up the Corona section on the BBC app.
There have been thousands of ppl tested in the 3 test stages in the 5 main vaccines made in Europe and the UK..

I'm part of one of the vaccine studies. We are monitored well. We have a 24 hour access phone line. We will be monitored for 12 months after the vaccine.

[quote trulydelicious]@gurglebelly

Because the people that can't be vaccinated don't have a choice and should be protected

That's fine. But at the same time, people should be protected from being damaged by a new vaccine or any medical treatment for that matter.[/quote]
But there isn’t any evidence that people are being damaged by these new vaccines. Plenty of evidence people are being damaged by covid though.

@TrufflyPig

We’re all on databases, CCTV, etc. anyway. No one’s really untraceable unless they’re living off-grid

Exactly. You've probably already handed a lot over to Mumsnet in order to post about these things too!

Well if you think that's the same thing then there's no need for people to "check in" when going places.

Given that the Govt have only order 7 million doses of assorted vaccines and the population numbers 68million plus then it would be grossly unfair for them to block the freedoms of unvaccinated people any further,

No one has proposed that you are scanned in order to access food.

I don’t think the state should be dictating medical treatment, or restricting daily living. I can see the benefit with air travel and perhaps large super spreader events. Encouraging cafes and restaurants to not allow people inside without a vaccine, no way several steps too far for me. I want the vaccine but I believe in choice. It’s the job of the government to provide information so that people see the benefits themselves, if that leaves me at slightly higher risk of infection so be it.

There’s 40 million Pfizer vaccines alone aren’t there (20 mill people)

if that leaves me at slightly higher risk of infection so be it

It's not just about you though.

This is literally an argument you cannot win!

Your fear of an imagined threat posed by these vaccinations (which science is telling you not to worry about) vs the fear of the very real threat of covid for those who are unable to get a vaccination through no fault of their own.

You will not and cannot win your argument. It's pants quite frankly.

Yes but the article mentions going back to work and if you can not work you can not afford food. Just doesn't sound like the sort of decisions Ministers in a mature democracy should take with a wave of a hand. There are deep and long term implications about an individuals relationship to the state that would need to be fully discussed first. It is nothing to do with conspiracy theorists or anti vaxx arguments to discuss this. I am sure many legal scholars and medical ethicists would raise similar questions.

But the state restricts what you can do in so many ways already

Don't speed, don't kill, you must have a passport to travel, you must have basic maths and English qualifications to do most jobs and they will keep you at school to get those quals

The state ( aka the government that everyone has a say in choosing ) puts restrictions on people to the benefit of all

Many people can't work or are forced to work from home currently

So they main gain the opportunity to gain a freedom once they have been vaccinated , before the virus is sufficiently controlled that we are happy with everyone having that freedom

It won't be compluslar, but you may end up in lockdown style restrictions for longer if you don't want it. Your choice

@TrufflyPig

if that leaves me at slightly higher risk of infection so be it

It's not just about you though.

Well it’s my opinion which I surely what a discussion is about. And it has actually happened to me as I couldn’t have a vaccination because of medical contra-indication and got the disease and was very unwell. That is just the way it goes unfortunately. Right to choose is enshrined in medical ethics in this country, I would absolutely defend that. It is a very slippery slope. Lead by example, give information, show the benefits. If people are ill informed whose fault is that?

The state ( aka the government that everyone has a say in choosing ) puts restrictions on people to the benefit of all yes but they don't include doing things to people's bodies that are irreversible.

@Nappyvalley15

Yes but the article mentions going back to work and if you can not work you can not afford food. Just doesn't sound like the sort of decisions Ministers in a mature democracy should take with a wave of a hand. There are deep and long term implications about an individuals relationship to the state that would need to be fully discussed first. It is nothing to do with conspiracy theorists or anti vaxx arguments to discuss this. I am sure many legal scholars and medical ethicists would raise similar questions.

I am educated in these fields and couldn’t disagree more with you.

In what way does de facto mandatory vaccination impact the individual’s relationship with the state more than the curbs on our civil liberties we’ve had to endure this year?

It’s currently against the law for me to have another person in my home even by consent. It’s against the law for me to travel outside my local authority area. Having a vaccine which has been approved and licensed is small fry in comparison frankly IMO.

@Nappyvalley15

Yes but the article mentions going back to work and if you can not work you can not afford food. Just doesn't sound like the sort of decisions Ministers in a mature democracy should take with a wave of a hand. There are deep and long term implications about an individuals relationship to the state that would need to be fully discussed first. It is nothing to do with conspiracy theorists or anti vaxx arguments to discuss this. I am sure many legal scholars and medical ethicists would raise similar questions.

I agree, it’s not an anti-vax issue at all. I’m neither anti-vax nor a conspiracy theorist. The public wouldn’t even accept ID cards so I think many people have an issue with too much state interference

Babies receive a jab within moments of being born.

You breath in pollution that changes every cell in your body every time you walk down the street

You drink that water laden with chemicals that the government mandates

but you are scared about a vaccine and at the same time scared about not having the vaccine and having to wait

Babies receive vitamin k only with parental consent. It’s optional

What are you defining pollution as

I don’t think a bit of chlorine is laden with chemicals. I could buy a purifier or bottle water if I was worried.

I don't spread disinformation, but I am truly concerned, yes

Yeah, sure you are.

@musicalfrog

This is literally an argument you cannot win!

Your fear of an imagined threat posed by these vaccinations (which science is telling you not to worry about) vs the fear of the very real threat of covid for those who are unable to get a vaccination through no fault of their own.

You will not and cannot win your argument. It's pants quite frankly.

Couldn’t agree more with this.

I worry vulnerable people, who should be encouraged to have the vaccine, instead of turning to their doctor or health care professional for advice, will instead listen to the noise on social media.

I also worry people seem to have no concept about civil liberties at all. Unless many people have been living under a rock for the last 10 months, we have merrily given away our liberties. Whilst people seem to want to get them back (I definitely do!) no one seems to be able to offer a solution. The anti-vax don’t want the vaccine, the anti-lockdown don’t want lockdown. Does that mean we live in the tier system for the rest of our lives? Or wait 10 years for a vaccine (that’s ready now) as this seems to be a figure merrily banded around as an acceptable time to wait for the development of a vaccine.

Please - instead of negatives, give me a way out of this that doesn’t involve lockdowns forever (and the inevitable destroying of our economy so there will be no NHS, school system or liberties to have anyway)

@Blobby10

Given that the Govt have only order 7 million doses of assorted vaccines and the population numbers 68million plus then it would be grossly unfair for them to block the freedoms of unvaccinated people any further,

Actually 350 million doses, some of which require 2 doses each to be effective but more than enough for everybody.

www.cityam.com/which-covid-vaccines-has-the-uk-government-ordered/