Test and Trace is 'working on making immunity passports to allow Brits to prove they have been vaccinated against Covid-19 using NHS app'

[trulydelicious]

Just seen this

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9000479/Test-Trace-working-making-immunity-passports.html#reader-comments

This is getting out of control now in my view and all this rethoric is disturbing and irresponsible.

Nobody should be coerced into having vaccines:

1. that use new technology
2. for which long term side effects are not known (precisely because the technology for most of them is new)
3. when pharmaceutical companies producing them are bearing no responsibility for potential side effects

The vaccines should not be touted as a 'passport' to recoup our 'freedoms'

Just to clarify, I'm not anti-vaxx (we have had all childhood vaccines and the flu vaccine)

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince Initially, they did say they were aiming for all adults who want it to be vaccinated by Easter. But at the select committee hearing last week, Matt Hancock gave a more cautious timetable with over 50s and the vulnerable being vaccinated by Easter, not all adults. So who knows?
www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/politics/covid-rules-explained-vaccine-matt-hancock-easter-deadline-771025/amp

The whole idea of an 'Immunity Passport' is wrong, anyway, as having a Covid vaccine doesn't mean you are immune, since vaccines aren't 100% effective!

Everyone who is doubting the vaccine should really pay attention to the various PPs explanations of herd immunity. If enough of you manage to scupper our efforts then NOBODY will get immunity and we will be back to square one. Its all very well shouting about your freedoms but if you gain enough numbers to overwhelm the vaccinated population then we all lose, it's back to March we go! So it seems you have a choice - don't fly, have a big party or hold a business conference OR we all lockdown again, livelihoods lost, people die, mental health spirals, children lose education....need I go on?

You can't have your cake and eat it. The protection offered to YOU by the people around you who are vaccinated completely disappears if your way of thinking spreads.

It's the daily fail. Don't read too much into it. Probably a load of crap.

Fundamentally many people need a record of their vaccine status to do things. Mainly to travel. If we had a digital record we could access then it would save the NHS and individuals time and money.

The test and trace app isn’t the right option. The NHS app uses ID checks and might be a possibility.

On this basis it’s a good idea that needs work. Sounds like the business minister was talking off the cuff and without a decent vaccination briefing.

Why would this be easier?
(medical exemptions)

It wouldn't need to be easy. International travel might not be possible for those who cannot have the vaccine safely until large numbers have had the jab and transmission is suppressed (if indeed it is suppressed, not clear yet if the vaccine will prevent spread as well as making the disease mild).

But it will be clearer cut. For masks, it's not only the diagnosis, it's the effect of the diagnosis on the individual (so some people with condition X might be fine in a mask, others might not). But a diagnosis of severe allergy, or another (probably immune system) condition will absolutely preclude vaccination.

As the vaccine won't work in somewhere between 5-30% of recipients, I expect testing regimes might be in place for quite a while longer, for everyone. And for those who cannot be vaccinated, the wait for resuming n of certain activities might be rather longer.

I wonder if there might also be an exemption for those who are on trials for vaccines? Some of whom will have received a placebo but who cannot be unblinded and then vaccinated until trial concluded. Or those on the prophylactic antibodies trial - who cannot be vaccinated for the duration either. I suspect travel might not be possible for them for a while, which is a shame because without volunteeers there would be no preventative measures and it just seems a shame that those who have acted benevolently might be late to see any benefits for themselves

@TalkingIntoTheEther. My ( limited) understanding of Covid is that it affects different people to greater or lesser degrees though. Take Kate Garraway’s husband for example, early 50’s, he’s been seriously ill since March. Personally, my cousin, 35, has been battling Covid for several weeks now. I was astonished when I heard how unwell she’s been- no underlying conditions, she just developed a bad case.

I think I’d rather be vaccinated!

Well considering she is speaking on behalf of a task force which presumably has access to data that you and i do not, I’m going to accept what she says

She was speculating when there was no trial data available so I will not.

I wish ministers were warned not to mouth off in this way. What he was saying was utter nonsense and so totally unworkable that if it did go ahead, at best it would be pointless bit of faffery like not being able to take water on a plane. It'll just be another useless 'measure' to 'protect' people who seem to have become so utterly terrified of everything that they need superstition, smoke and mirrors to engage in the most basic everyday activities.

According to the Torygraph, it's now no vaccine, and you won't get in a pub or much else either.
www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-news-tiers-covid-lockdown-oxford-vaccine-christmas/

@MrsMigginsMate

“ Everyone who is doubting the vaccine should really pay attention to the various PPs explanations of herd immunity. If enough of you manage to scupper our efforts then NOBODY will get immunity ”

I’m not sure you understand how herd immunity works. You can become immune either through natural infection or vaccination. Your own personal immunity is not dependent on how many other people are immune. Herd immunity is just the level of immunity in the population that is required to stop the virus from freely spreading between non-immune people.

I have read in several newspapers that there is no evidence that the vaccination prevents transmission but only makes the symptoms less severe. If that is the case then even if you have been vaccinated you could still become infected with the virus and pass it on.

Surely then you would be at no greater risk of catching Covid from an unvaccinated person than a vaccinated one and the people who would suffer most would be those who did not get vaccinated as their symptoms could be more severe. Or am I missing something?

Re. My cousin. I’m not saying she’s on a ventilator or anything, but she was almost bed bound at home for several weeks. She’s improving now and can walk about, but it’s been far more serious than anyone expected, given her age and general good health.☹️

I agree with this approach. It's still down to personal choice as no one is being made to have the vaccine. We can't be expected to keep living like this (and accepting the economic damage and impact on people's jobs) though to protect people who choose to exercise their right to refuse the vaccine.

This approach offers some balance between the right to refuse and the rights of everyone who has the vaccine in order to get their lives back, children back in school properly etc.

Probably not worth having the vaccine then if you don't have the app...

@bumbleymummy. But natural immunity wears off, right? So then you’re susceptible again.

If it wore off among a large group of unvaccinated people, wouldn’t they then start spreading Covid, at least amongst themselves?

I don’t claim to be any sort of expert, but surely that wouldn’t be a good thing!

Herd immunity is just the level of immunity in the population that is required to stop the virus from freely spreading between non-immune people.

Yep this.

Who would be more worthy of having their health protected? Those on the plane who cannot get vaccinated or those who fear their health will be damaged by the vaccine but would need to travel anyway?

Those who can't be vaccinated. The other group aren't at any risk, they just want to think they're more special than everyone else.

It's becoming increasingly obvious that there will be restrictions on - at the very least - international travel for the willingly unvaccinated. Those restrictions will largely be beyond the control of the UK government. Other countries have the right to decide who enters their country, and if they don't want you because of a choice you made ... tough. Take it up with their foreign office?

There’s also the issue of burdening the healthcare system. If you choose not to be vaccinated and then become seriously ill, you’re taking up a hospital bed....

@AmICrazyorWhat2 Recent studies shows it lasts 6+ months. We don’t know how long immunity from the vaccine lasts yet either but that doesn’t seem to bother people.

But with lockdown we have now, we don’t have many “freedoms”, so what are you losing? Without the vaccine, we will be forever in and out of lockdown. So if you want to have the vaccine, you should be allowed out of “lockdown” and allowed to live freely. If you don’t, your position really hasn’t changed from the last eight months so you should stay in “lockdown” to protect yourself and others.

You decide to lock yourself down, by not having the vaccine. Others decide to protect themselves and others by having the vaccine. With that will come the inevitable ability to leave lockdown. Don’t really see a problem with that.

Also, we aren’t just talking about our own citizens. Hopefully the government will make it a rule that visitors will be required to have the vaccine to come into the country, to protect our own citizens who cannot have the vaccine for reasons other than they don’t want it.

[quote bumbleymummy]@MrsMigginsMate

“ Everyone who is doubting the vaccine should really pay attention to the various PPs explanations of herd immunity. If enough of you manage to scupper our efforts then NOBODY will get immunity ”

I’m not sure you understand how herd immunity works. You can become immune either through natural infection or vaccination. Your own personal immunity is not dependent on how many other people are immune. Herd immunity is just the level of immunity in the population that is required to stop the virus from freely spreading between non-immune people.[/quote]
This is exactly what I mean, if there is poor uptake of the vaccine then the population won't be immune, herd immunity won't be achieved.

Immunity means total resistance to the virus. If I am surrounded by unvaccinated people then I WILL catch it, therefore I am not immune. The vaccine will make the disease less severe but as long as there is community spread we won't eradicate it at all.

[quote bumbleymummy]@AmICrazyorWhat2 Recent studies shows it lasts 6+ months. We don’t know how long immunity from the vaccine lasts yet either but that doesn’t seem to bother people.[/quote]
Vaccines typically give a longer immunity than natural immunity. There is no reason to think this isn’t the case with the various vaccines in development / seeking approval.

@bumbleymummy. Yes, we might need annual Covid shots, similar to the annual flu shot. Especially if it mutates. Or, they might last for several years, like other vaccines.

[quote bumbleymummy]@Lindy2

“ If you're not vaccinated I don't want to be on a plane with you. Likewise I don't want to be in a theatre, restaurant, cinema etc with you because I don't want to be close to someone who could still be spreading Coronavirus unnecessarily. ”

Why? If you have the vaccine then what difference would it make what anyone else does? What about if they’ve got immunity from having covid itself?[/quote]
But what if they have had the vaccination and they happen to be the minute percentage that the vaccine doesn’t work for, or what if there are people who can’t have the vaccines because of health issues such as cancers, autoimmune diseases.