Test and Trace is 'working on making immunity passports to allow Brits to prove they have been vaccinated against Covid-19 using NHS app'

[trulydelicious]

Just seen this

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9000479/Test-Trace-working-making-immunity-passports.html#reader-comments

This is getting out of control now in my view and all this rethoric is disturbing and irresponsible.

Nobody should be coerced into having vaccines:

1. that use new technology
2. for which long term side effects are not known (precisely because the technology for most of them is new)
3. when pharmaceutical companies producing them are bearing no responsibility for potential side effects

The vaccines should not be touted as a 'passport' to recoup our 'freedoms'

Just to clarify, I'm not anti-vaxx (we have had all childhood vaccines and the flu vaccine)

I agree op. It's appalling.

People don't seem to get the fact that vaccines rely on herd immunity. If no one gets vaccinated, we are stuck in this limbo forever. Even if most people do, you are still putting others at risk if you don't because the vaccine is only 90% effective and not possible for all.

I was thinking the same thing, @longestlurkerever. There was a measles outbreak in the US in 2019 and I think some of the cases started at theme parks down in Florida. Basically, the herd immunity wasn’t working anymore, because too many children hadn’t been vaccinated. They caught measles on holiday, then got on planes and brought the infection home.

Most of us probably don’t want to get the Covid vaccine, but I personally think I have to as part of the herd immunity. If too many people refuse it, Covid’s here to stay.

@LemonTT, totally agree - the OP pops up on every vaccination thread spreading disinformation and concern. I wish they'd just stop - if the OP doesn't want the vaccine then they don't have to have it, but continually trying to scare others into not having it is starting to look a wee bit sinister.
Yep @diplodocusinermine completely agree.

@TalkingIntoTheEther Having just looked her up it appears she has little to no vaccine experience so I trust that she has no authority on this.

Oh, thought this thread was going to be about the idiocy of using an insecure App as proof of vaccination.

I don't see how it will all work. They haven't even planned a mass roll out yet. Then they would have to issue some sort of cert. I'm not a group that would be first on this list. So if there were to be immunity passports how long would we have to wait? Loads of people who are the prime customer base for the hospitality industry won't be first on the list so won't have immunity passports.

If you're not vaccinated I don't want to be on a plane with you. Likewise I don't want to be in a theatre, restaurant, cinema etc with you because I don't want to be close to someone who could still be spreading Coronavirus unnecessarily.

I really think restrictions for those that choose not to be vaccinated will be the norm.

We're all in this together and we need to get out of this together by achieving herd immunity through vaccination and those that won't help are a problem IMO.

Also, the Kate Bingham article was published well before any of the vaccine teams published their results in the last couple of weeks. If you read the FT article now, it's very out of date.

I am not British, and in my country, children can't even be admitted in school unless they are vaccinated, so I guess I do not understand individual liberties over public health. I understand childhood vaccines have been around for a while, but I think that can't be helped.

So are the government definitely planning on offering a Covid vaccine to all adults at some point?

I’m fine - in theory - with the principle of immunity passports, but only if it’s actually possible for everyone who wants a vaccine to get one.

Well then I hope they quickly roll it out. I'm on one of the final categories of people to get vaccinated. I will happily take one as soon as it is offered

This. Priority obviously needs to go to older and more vulnerable people. But it needs to be rolled out pretty promptly to the remaining categories pretty promptly if it's going to be made a condition of travel, going to some venues and generally getting back to normal life. Travel doesn't just mean holidays to Benidorm, it often also means being able to see family or can be required for people's jobs.

missed a word there. "prioritising individual liberties over public health."

I mean, I want to have a COVID vaccine, but it would be extremely annoying to be denied international travel and entry to venues on the grounds of me not being vaccinated - if the reason for not being vaccinated was that I’m not yet eligible to receive one because I’m not in a high enough priority group.

@namochangoro Agreed. Can you imagine the uproar if we have a situation this summer where older people, having been the ones protected most by the restrictions, are free to head off on their holidays/go to various venues etc, while younger adults are unable to do so?

This is such a selfish viewpoint. It boils down to thinking that enough people should have the vaccine so we can get back to normality but not you. If you aren’t willing to get the vaccine, you can’t cry if you don’t get the benefits of it (concerts and air travel). If everyone was so selfish about the risk of the new vaccine then 1. life won’t return to normal anytime soon, 2. there will be no way of assessing the vaccine anyway.

Well considering she is speaking on behalf of a task force which presumably has access to data that you and i do not, I’m going to accept what she says.

And of course there is a risk of harm, as there is with any clinical intervention, whether it’s meds related or iatrogenic. I’m happy to take those risks when the benefit outweighs them, I’m not happy to be coerced into it when people in authority have said that for people in my situation the benefit may not outweigh the risk. I would advocate anyone for whom there is a clinical indication to have the vaccine, but there is not an indication for me and I resent being coerced into having it. It is not unreasonable to state that.

I thought the government were aiming to have everyone over the age of 18 vaccinated by Easter. Or did l imagine that?

@TalkingIntoTheEther. We still have the problem of herd immunity though. If too many people refuse the vaccine, herd immunity won’t be achieved and Covid outbreaks will keep occurring.

I believe the herd immunity threshold varies depending on the disease. According to Google, Measles is 95% of the population, polio is lower- I suppose we’ll have to see what percentage is needed for Covid.

If anything is going to be required for travel/access it should proof of immunity rather than proof of vaccination. The vaccine doesn’t guarantee immunity and you can be immune through natural infection. Why should people who are already immune have to be vaccinated just to tick a box?

I’m also going to point out again (there have been several threads about this recently) that herd immunity is achieved when a certain level of the population is immune either through vaccination or by natural infection. Currently, every case that we have is reducing the number of susceptible people (immunity from infection lasts 6+ months). The vaccine will reduce this further and, by targeting the more vulnerable, should reduce the number of fatalities/hospitalisations thereby taking the pressure off the NHS. It will by no means be necessary to vaccinate the entire population to reach the level of herd immunity required.

But why are COVID outbreaks a problem if high risk people are immunised? I understand there will be high risk people who might not be able to have the vaccine, but surely they will be high risk of all manner of virus which we do not mass vaccinate against - eg chickenpox?

Demanding vaccine for entry isn't really a good thing is it?

Once released if your not on the list, you have to pay private. Realistically how many people are going to be able to afford it? Family of 4 the cinema trip, meal out, or other rare treat is no longer affordable.

What about your under 18? Nothing yet for them. Special containment area on the plane for them? No family holidays or even outings.

Kept the schools open to protect the economy. Protect the nation and lock up your kids?

@TalkingIntoTheEther

Well considering she is speaking on behalf of a task force which presumably has access to data that you and i do not, I’m going to accept what she says.

And of course there is a risk of harm, as there is with any clinical intervention, whether it’s meds related or iatrogenic. I’m happy to take those risks when the benefit outweighs them, I’m not happy to be coerced into it when people in authority have said that for people in my situation the benefit may not outweigh the risk. I would advocate anyone for whom there is a clinical indication to have the vaccine, but there is not an indication for me and I resent being coerced into having it. It is not unreasonable to state that.

I think she was just trying to justify a potential government position - not being able to afford to / have sufficient supplies of a vaccine to vaccinate everyone. Now that we probably do have sufficient supplies they will vaccinate all adults eventually. I'm also not sure that you could call long covid a "freak event" based on the statistics coming out to date so I'm clueless as to why she said that the risk of a freak event from a vaccine was greater than the risk of covid to adults under 50?

@PlanDeRaccordement

Oh, thought this thread was going to be about the idiocy of using an insecure App as proof of vaccination.

Yes, I will most likely have the vaccine but I am not being forced into using that useless app and having my personal details on it

@Lindy2

“ If you're not vaccinated I don't want to be on a plane with you. Likewise I don't want to be in a theatre, restaurant, cinema etc with you because I don't want to be close to someone who could still be spreading Coronavirus unnecessarily. ”

Why? If you have the vaccine then what difference would it make what anyone else does? What about if they’ve got immunity from having covid itself?

I find it fascinating that people seem to believe in having freedoms, but without responsibilities. Freedom does not exist. Most peoples freedom is curtailed by laws, social mores and other factors. Nobody is truly free to do as they like. But absolutely nobody will have to take the vaccine. That is their right and a freedom they enjoy. But they then have no right to impose that decision of anyone else - and if other people or businesses chose the freedom not to mix with or serve those people, then that is their right and freedom to choose. And I'm absolutely fine with that. So are most people. We won't miss you on the planes, boats or anywhere else.

As for those complaining that they won't be able to get the vaccine - that is very, very unlikely. You might not get it for free. But I will lay bets you'll be able to buy it - possibly long before some people who really need it can access it. And if you can afford a holiday, then you should be able to afford whatever vaccines are required for that holiday, just like people have been doing for decades.

In any case, all those complaining about being denied the right to travel want to remember that the airlines, who actually really do have the right to refuse you as a passenger, are the least of your problems. You won't be able to get travel insurance if you haven't had the vaccine. It's already in most new policies, and many existing ones (mine included) have been amended to state that your insurance is invalid if you travel without having had the vaccine when one is available. Of course, you don't have to buy insurance, but then anything and everything, whether Covid related or not, that goes wrong with your holiday is on your head. Do you have any idea what it costs to get back from another country if, for example, you catch Covid there; the medical bills in other countries if you happen to get ill., etc etc. And remember, you also won't have European health cover any more, basic though that always was - we won't be part of the EU and all medical costs will have to be paid for.