Government denial over schools issues will cause deaths this Christmas

[noblegiraffe]

I just can't get my head around how utterly crazy the government Christmas policy is.

Secondary school kids are the most infected subset of the population with it now estimated that more than 1 in 50 of them are positive. As they are children, most of them will never be tested as they either are asymptomatic, or will display different symptoms to the main three that are required to trigger a test (councils are overruling this in some parts of England and asking parents to use a more sensible list of symptoms).

Schools mostly break up on 18th December, 5 days before the Christmas relaxation period begins and people start taking advantage of this to mix with other households indoors, in poorly ventilated small rooms, which as scientists warn, is a terrible idea. twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1331931594400149506?s=21

Closing schools a week earlier (or moving online) would give 2 weeks out of school before Christmas day, which would reduce the infection rate in school children significantly (we saw a dip in the infection rate just in one week over half term) and make it safer for them to mix with other households, particularly if people took advantage of those two weeks to significantly reduce their contacts and other risks.

Some schools took it upon themselves to protect their own communities by changing the term dates to close a week earlier. The DfE has overruled this and forced them to stay open.
schoolsweek.co.uk/overruled-dfes-sweeping-coronavirus-powers-force-trust-into-early-christmas-holiday-u-turn/

Because of the tier system, if families don't get together at Christmas during the relaxation period, when their children pose a much higher risk, they will not be able to see their families properly for Christmas at all. Essentially Christmas is being funnelled into a time period which is insanely risky due to it coming shortly after children mixing freely in unsafe schools with significant numbers of undiscovered infections.

I know the DfE have been reading this board. I understand why you want schools open, but lying to people about the risks as you have is dangerous and immoral. Transparency is needed so that people can make their own informed risk assessments, not propaganda about 'safe schools' and 'saving Christmas'.

That comment was for the OP. I know she is not a scientist!

People keep saying schools need more funding which I agree with (obviously) but I'm still not understanding how more funding will help them curb the covid spread. Is it PPE? Laptops for home learning?

Does anyone really think there would be public support for closing primaries on Friday?

I think there would be an uproar.

I think money for supply staff too sandy, to cover lessons where staff haven’t been able to come in due to self isolation.

@Nicknacky

christinarossetti19 Jeez, I’m really having to spell it out for you, aren’t I?

You are unwilling to accept that some parents will struggle with this and can’t just juggle customers like you can. The struggle that small businesses are going though is a separate issue and one that is also affecting us. But we are discussing childcare and schools here.

You cry “work shifts”, “take annual leave” and won’t listen when posters tell you that can’t happen.

Is that clearer for you?

Eh? I've been very, very clear what a nightmare closing schools is. They were my exact words, I believe.

I can't just 'juggle customers' as I've already explained at least twice. Childcare means that I have lost work, customers and pay since March.

The struggle of small businesses isn't a separate issue to schools and childcare. For small business owners with children, they're inherently linked. That's been my life since March, as it has been for parents all over the country.

You cry 'juggle clients' when I've already explained that I have limited potential to do that (childcare).

Is that clearer for you?

[quote IloveJKRowling]Schools are unsafe. And there's lots of things that can be done to improve that without having to close them. Teacher unions are not campaigning for permanent school closures anyway, that's just anti-union propaganda

Yes. Sorry if previously linked don't have time to RTFT but the Indie Sage report on schools is excellent and gives lots of practical ways to make them OPEN but SAFER - very much echoes what we've all been saying on here for months. Debunks a lot of the DfE lies.

www.independentsage.org/an-urgent-plan-for-safer-schools/

Also this article in Independent on this report

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/independent-sage-coronavirus-infection-schools-b1762906.html[/quote]
For some reason it displays for me as 3 blank pages and then one of text. The text I could read looked sensible. Including the consideration of children’s mental health and development which often gets overlooked

Sandy yes ppe and cleaning. Also provision of technology esp for secondary school children. Ditto Broadband.

But the main cost for schools is supply.

This Friday???! I thought the proposal was for just the last week? So, the 11th?
Or maybe the 18th, for those schools continuing until the 22nd?

@Welcometonowhere

Does anyone really think there would be public support for closing primaries on Friday?

I think there would be an uproar.

Of course there would be.

@CallmeAngelina

This Friday???! I thought the proposal was for just the last week? So, the 11th? Or maybe the 18th, for those schools continuing until the 22nd?

11th - all students

Should DfE have said yes?

I highly doubt there are enough supply teachers in the world who could cover the current (and forecast) staff absences.

CallMeAngelina Do you support extending the holidays?

You’re right Angelina sorry! A week Friday! Wishful thinking!

@CallmeAngelina

I highly doubt there are enough supply teachers in the world who could cover the current (and forecast) staff absences.

Still. DfE response should be - yes or no?

If there are not enough supply teachers and cover cannot be sorted internally, then schools have to close. This is an individual decision for the school. That doesn’t mean it is the first response.

What’s the mechanism of reducing staff absence by having a week off before Christmas? Are teachers only mixing with other teachers?

I can honestly say I don’t know Bungle. I think it’s a crazy suggestion.

You could argue time off after Christmas as a wash out period would. But how logically could time before?

Suggestions about having an extended Xmas holidays are about trying to reduce the spread of the virus in the institutions where it's spreading most ie secondary schools.

It's possible that this may reduce spread in schools come the New Year, given what happened at half term.

But who knows?

Making schools safer from them opening would have been a better course of action. It's extraordinary how willing people seem to be to let the govt off the hook about this.

@IrmaFayLear

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

OP is not calling for schools to close, but to be made safer, as she has repeated many, many times. (Others have called for shorter “circuit break” closures, which is a valid point of view, and de facto closures are happening anyway as the virus overwhelms some schools, but these closures aren’t planned, making it harder for everyone). She is also neither speaking on behalf of any teaching union nor any political party. She has been giving sound advice on Mumsnet for many years and has helped a lot of people whose children have had problems with learning Maths. No one is beyond criticism, but among posters on here, I think Noble is among the least deserving of it. She has the interests of children,and, yes, teachers at heart - because children benefit from having teachers who are healthy and feel secure and valued.

@christinarossetti19

Suggestions about having an extended Xmas holidays are about trying to reduce the spread of the virus in the institutions where it's spreading most ie secondary schools.

It's possible that this may reduce spread in schools come the New Year, given what happened at half term.

But who knows?

Making schools safer from them opening would have been a better course of action. It's extraordinary how willing people seem to be to let the govt off the hook about this.

This whole thread was set up about primaries pre Christmas. Which as yet no one has admitted they want.

If you want to change secondary post it’s a different issue.

Oops quote deleted as I posted!

Why would anyone want schools closed? Aren’t you concerned about the impact on your child’s future prospects. My child is off self isolating at the moment, due to school bubble being popped. If they close school early that’s 3 weeks off school. Stop overreacting and think about what’s actually best for your children.

I’ll just pick out “No one is beyond criticism” there.

Actually I do have an issue with posters who post threads repeatedly on one subject - any subject. They never carry on contributing to a thread they started yesterday, or the day before, but start new ones all the time to gain attention.

I actually think this is something MN should attend to.

Well said KjC39. Children have been off for too long, and it didn't make any difference to the trajectory of the disease. If anything, it helped push it into another wave (although even the stats on that are suspicious). I think all the posters on this thread hand-wringing over schools being open should be free to have their children learn at home until restrictions end if it helps them with their anxiety. But to use that anxiety to agitate for schools to be closed nationally is unfair and unnecessary. People need to start getting a grip on this.