Government denial over schools issues will cause deaths this Christmas

[noblegiraffe]

I just can't get my head around how utterly crazy the government Christmas policy is.

Secondary school kids are the most infected subset of the population with it now estimated that more than 1 in 50 of them are positive. As they are children, most of them will never be tested as they either are asymptomatic, or will display different symptoms to the main three that are required to trigger a test (councils are overruling this in some parts of England and asking parents to use a more sensible list of symptoms).

Schools mostly break up on 18th December, 5 days before the Christmas relaxation period begins and people start taking advantage of this to mix with other households indoors, in poorly ventilated small rooms, which as scientists warn, is a terrible idea. twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1331931594400149506?s=21

Closing schools a week earlier (or moving online) would give 2 weeks out of school before Christmas day, which would reduce the infection rate in school children significantly (we saw a dip in the infection rate just in one week over half term) and make it safer for them to mix with other households, particularly if people took advantage of those two weeks to significantly reduce their contacts and other risks.

Some schools took it upon themselves to protect their own communities by changing the term dates to close a week earlier. The DfE has overruled this and forced them to stay open.
schoolsweek.co.uk/overruled-dfes-sweeping-coronavirus-powers-force-trust-into-early-christmas-holiday-u-turn/

Because of the tier system, if families don't get together at Christmas during the relaxation period, when their children pose a much higher risk, they will not be able to see their families properly for Christmas at all. Essentially Christmas is being funnelled into a time period which is insanely risky due to it coming shortly after children mixing freely in unsafe schools with significant numbers of undiscovered infections.

I know the DfE have been reading this board. I understand why you want schools open, but lying to people about the risks as you have is dangerous and immoral. Transparency is needed so that people can make their own informed risk assessments, not propaganda about 'safe schools' and 'saving Christmas'.

Social distancing in schools not necessary or appropriate for what?

Certainly not to reduce or even contain spread of the virus.

But headteachers doing what they can to keep children and adults safe, plus funding lots of extra cover, ensuring that windows can be open as per govt guidance shouldn't receive any funding?

Right you are.

is a third choice that they can keep the schools open until right before Christmas but not go back for at least two weeks after the 27th

Not grate for kids who have exams mid Jan but missing them due to SI even worse.

Before we all go out and have a celebratory pint ... have a think

In late aug UK positivity rate was below 1%.
Now it is around 6%

Daily new cases were around the 2k mark in late aug.
Now we are happy to see a fall from 26k/day to "only" 13,000

Late aug daily deaths were in low 2 digits or even single digits.
Now 7 day avg if 460 people.

There is nothing actually to celebrate. We just have a short breather in the middle of the shitshow.

But yes, please don't put pressure on Dfe do anything, because magic circles surround the schools and teachers have a magic wand that dispels the virus.

And by the way keep on:

• mixing as everyone pleases, because we all know that everyone is a responsible adult - hah! and everyone can not only do their own risk assessment, but can also look at the big picture and factor in their action's consequences on the whole of society
• keep bashing teachers - who despite all this shit still are trying to maintain some standard of education and childcare for the only 8% of the workforce
• not blaming gov and standing up against them in any form. They are saints who are funneling money to their friends only to help the country out.

People on here are saying "our school is fine. Only a handful of cases since last September" and my dc haven't had to isolate at all. They were only sending home close contacts, and hardly had any, and were confident that they knew where each positive case had come from, and it wasn't within school.

I could have put that last Monday.
On Tuesday they closed one year due to half having to go home and isolate due to 2 cases in one year, plus a number of staff meaning they were short of staff.
On Thursday another year was sent home due to a similar situation. Today a third year has been sent home. Nearly half the staff are isolated ditto the support staff.
There have been more positive cases among the pupils since Thursday than in staff and pupils the rest of term.

This is how quickly it can go from being "we're all fine" to "it's getting out of control."

In our area, we are seeing a rise in cases still. The majority cases are among children-and parents and teachers.
This could be repeated in any area.

Yes best to always see the worst.

It could have been a rise but hey

100% agree.

We won't be seeing anyone this Christmas for this exact reason. My son is too big a risk for his Grandparents and Great-Grandparents.

As usual the whole thing has been dreadfully thought out. For half of the country's school children, eg Primary, the last week of term will be a learning-free farce anyway. Primaries are notorious for doing FA in the run up to Christmas, it'll just be open as a child-minding service for those who have to work but in that time thousands more kids will take the virus home to their families for Christmas.

Just ridiculous.

It's not seeing the worst Marsha.

It's just pointing out that the position that secondary schools are is unsustainable.

Your list is actually similar to mine, covidnomore

Testing an entire bubble when there is a positive case to flush out the asymptomatics that we know will accompany it.

Binning the 'only send home close contacts' policy. It's a pile of shit. Testing the bubble and isolating more widely will be more effective.

Masks in classrooms

Money to schools to improve ventilation

No fines for ECV families

Christina I’m all for local assessment.

Funding of course always wanted pointless to add really. Economically we’re being hammered.

I’m not sure on remote for all secondary after Christmas for a week but considering it

@noblegiraffe

Your list is actually similar to mine, covidnomore

Testing an entire bubble when there is a positive case to flush out the asymptomatics that we know will accompany it.

Binning the 'only send home close contacts' policy. It's a pile of shit. Testing the bubble and isolating more widely will be more effective.

Masks in classrooms

Money to schools to improve ventilation

No fines for ECV families

And after coming in strong with the op (re primary closure) this I agree with

@MarshaBradyo

Yes best to always see the worst.

It could have been a rise but hey

I'm going to work in an unsafe environment where I'm exposed to covid so much that I feel like I should have a bell and an 'unclean' sign. The government continues to lie about this so I cannot see a light at the end of the tunnel.

Lucky that you are in a position to be cheery.

Noble we are not even disagreeing on what to do. See pp

But whenever groups start talking about closing the schools you get a reaction not agreement. In general that is.

And after coming in strong with the op (re primary closure) this I agree with

The issue there is the DfE overruling heads attempting to keep their communities safe because the DfE won't. It's part of a wider problem.

Late aug daily deaths were in low 2 digits or even single digits. Now 7 day avg if 460 people

S Korea have 526 deaths from coronavirus total since the start of the pandemic and have only about 4 million fewer people than England.

Despite how badly, atrociously, we're doing compared to the rest of the world, let's just pretend it's all fine and not bother funding schools - ideal environments for coronavirus spread - to make them safer at all. It's utterly bonkers.

Maybe government are hoping that people will be sensible and altho they have been told they can visit relatives they won't its not upto the schools or the government its up to the parents and the risks there willing to take don't wanna give granny covid at Xmas don't visit or wrap up warm an do a quick door step visit.

Also what about people working are they all going to isolate aswell 2 weeks?

Maybe government are hoping that people will be sensible

No, they just didn't want to be the bad guys and cancel Christmas. They know their policy will kill people, but they'd prefer the headline 'Boris Battles to Save Christmas' above all else.

I've got to admit I am interested to see what our school do when we do finally get a positive case.

They have said the year group will close. 3 form entry.

But whether this is wait will happen is another thing.

@noblegiraffe

Maybe government are hoping that people will be sensible

No, they just didn't want to be the bad guys and cancel Christmas. They know their policy will kill people, but they'd prefer the headline 'Boris Battles to Save Christmas' above all else.

Exactly.

Populists are killing people (see uk, us, hungary,...)

I think schools will get positive cases and bubbles will burst, it’s to be expected.

I just can’t agree that closing all for some is proportionate.

And at the same time, the DfE can't acknowledge there's an issue in schools because 'Boris Battles Unions to Open Schools' was their popular summer slogan and acknowledging that the unions might have had a point about health and safety would be humiliating.

@noblegiraffe

I actually think the unions are precisely the reason why the government can’t be more flexible with schools over Christmas.

I wouldn’t be averse to a one week early closure at Christmas for non exam groups. But this would set a dangerous precedent for the unions and they’d be lucky to open before Easter.

The unions’ intransigence during the original lockdown in banning online lessons, marking and one to one contact leading to very poor provision has also made many parents and the government verify reluctant to go down that road again.

Kids have already missed so much school. All through first lockdown my son got no online learning and very little work sent home. Just 3 pieces of Maths all through first lockdown. Nothing was marked so no feedback. Now if a year group has to self isolate at home they get 2 hours teaching each day and s 15 min break is taken out of that time. If teachers had managed a better job of online learning or sending enough work home and marking it I would support but now I want child at school until.18th. I won't be visiting anyone over Xmas or hosting this year. I think.ehst is irresponsible is allowing 5 days of mad mixing. I will be having a belated Xmas after we have been vaccinated.

Schools are getting positive cases and children, teachers and other staff are being send home left, right and centre.

It's something that's happening now, not some hypothetical time in the future.