Government denial over schools issues will cause deaths this Christmas

[noblegiraffe]

I just can't get my head around how utterly crazy the government Christmas policy is.

Secondary school kids are the most infected subset of the population with it now estimated that more than 1 in 50 of them are positive. As they are children, most of them will never be tested as they either are asymptomatic, or will display different symptoms to the main three that are required to trigger a test (councils are overruling this in some parts of England and asking parents to use a more sensible list of symptoms).

Schools mostly break up on 18th December, 5 days before the Christmas relaxation period begins and people start taking advantage of this to mix with other households indoors, in poorly ventilated small rooms, which as scientists warn, is a terrible idea. twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1331931594400149506?s=21

Closing schools a week earlier (or moving online) would give 2 weeks out of school before Christmas day, which would reduce the infection rate in school children significantly (we saw a dip in the infection rate just in one week over half term) and make it safer for them to mix with other households, particularly if people took advantage of those two weeks to significantly reduce their contacts and other risks.

Some schools took it upon themselves to protect their own communities by changing the term dates to close a week earlier. The DfE has overruled this and forced them to stay open.
schoolsweek.co.uk/overruled-dfes-sweeping-coronavirus-powers-force-trust-into-early-christmas-holiday-u-turn/

Because of the tier system, if families don't get together at Christmas during the relaxation period, when their children pose a much higher risk, they will not be able to see their families properly for Christmas at all. Essentially Christmas is being funnelled into a time period which is insanely risky due to it coming shortly after children mixing freely in unsafe schools with significant numbers of undiscovered infections.

I know the DfE have been reading this board. I understand why you want schools open, but lying to people about the risks as you have is dangerous and immoral. Transparency is needed so that people can make their own informed risk assessments, not propaganda about 'safe schools' and 'saving Christmas'.

I think there is a general feeling (amongst a minority) that firstly not much is done in the last week (not true and even if it was true, it isn’t this year) and secondly that it is only a week anyway, it is a small thing. But if you have to beg last minute time off from work because of the schools closing then it isn’t a small thing, at all.

I am not accusing anyone on this thread of this but I also think a lot of teachers are beyond exhausted and believe me I sympathise with that. Two, rather than three weeks, seems possible.

But it just isn’t fair.

@IrmaFayLear, "They never carry on contributing to a thread they started yesterday, or the day before,"
And yet, the quickest of searches would have shown you that the OP has made around 80 contributions to this thread.

You'll have to try harder, I think.

I would be very careful about posting things that could be said to be a personal slight. That is exactly what is wanted.

CallmeAngelina You possibly missed it when myself and another poster both asked if you support extending the holidays?

"I actually think this is something MN should attend to."

Why on earth would MN, a discussion forum, put a stop to threads being started that generate debate?

@Sandyplankton

People keep saying schools need more funding which I agree with (obviously) but I'm still not understanding how more funding will help them curb the covid spread. Is it PPE? Laptops for home learning?

@Sandyplankton - money is required to deal with staff absence. Staffing costs make up the bast majority of a school’s budget. If a primary school can’t afford or source last-minute cover and the cleaner goes off sick, then guess what isn’t being done properly? Guess what happens when support staff and midday meals supervisors aren’t in? Support staff from other bubbles go into every bubble in the school to help cover for absent staff and there aren’t enough people around to police bubbles sharing the same toilets, etc. Primary schools will always prioritise sourcing cover for teachers, for obvious reasons, but they can’t even afford the extra costs of that, let alone the cost of helping the other poor buggers working in schools. Cleaning product costs, and soap and handtowel costs have also gone through the roof. And poor internet connections and old computers do not help if parents expect all singing, all dancing live-streaming of lessons, etc, etc.

@MarshaBradyo: "This whole thread was set up about primaries pre Christmas."

How odd, when right at the beginning of the OP it says this: "Secondary school kids are the most infected subset of the population with it now estimated that more than 1 in 50 of them are positive."

[quote CallmeAngelina]**@MarshaBradyo: "This whole thread was set up about primaries pre Christmas."

How odd, when right at the beginning of the OP it says this: "Secondary school kids are the most infected subset of the population with it now estimated that more than 1 in 50 of them are positive."[/quote]
You’re very selective

Any answer yet?

The DfE response was the main crux wasn’t it? Read the links

If it’s a poster who just starts new threads and doesn’t continue with one they started previously on the same subject. There was a poster in the summer who started a new thread on exactly the same topic every single day, leaving the previous one abandoned.

This would apply if the culprit were starting a thread in the doghouse “Shall I get a pit bull?” seven days a week.

"Any answer yet?"

I will not be bullied or hectored by posters on here.

CallmeAngelina Does that also include my question?

In fact it just shows how an unrelated DfE response has been shoehorned into secondary issue

The op claims DfE will be culpable yet no one has said they were wrong to say no.

"If it’s a poster who just starts new threads and doesn’t continue with one they started previously on the same subject."

But this OP is not someone who does that. She is an active participant in all her threads.

I’m not commenting on what I think MN should or shouldn’t do. But there is (supposedly) a philosophy on here about making parents’ lives easier. I get people have strong feelings but when disagreement leads to aggression in the way those strong feelings are expressed it stifles free speech and leads to rows and arguments. This applies to both sides.

I’m not convinced at all it’s doing any good. I’m commenting here myself (before someone demands to know why I’m posting then) because I do think a lot of the people hesitant about school closures have been driven away because tbh, if you have a voice of dissent, some responses can be pretty nasty. I’m sure the same is true in reverse but the difference is they aren’t the ones actually starting the threads.

If you complain about everything at work then even when you’ve a valid point people just roll their eyes and say ‘oh, it’s such and such a body moaning again’ - that’s what’s happening here IMO.

@Nicknacky

CallmeAngelina Does that also include my question?

Yes.

@CallmeAngelina

"Any answer yet?"

I will not be bullied or hectored by posters on here.

Why didn’t you just answer first time?

You said I was putting words into your mouth so I asked you directly .

Why not just respond? Before people repeat question

CallmeAngelina Since when does asking a question constitute bullying?🙄

No, the main crux was the rapid spread of covid in secondary schools. The DfE response was indeed to a Trust that had announced intentions of closing its primary schools a week early for Xmas on the back of 1 in 4 of the children and 40% of staff already having to have SI this term.

OP also contains links to scientists discussing how the current plans will ramp up spread of the virus, and the DfE article contains links to plummeting school attendance and schools having to close due to staff illness/needing to SI.

You're the one who's being selective Marsha. The OP has said explicitly that her area of concern is secondary schools as you're fully aware.

@christinarossetti19

No, the main crux was the rapid spread of covid in secondary schools. The DfE response was indeed to a Trust that had announced intentions of closing its primary schools a week early for Xmas on the back of 1 in 4 of the children and 40% of staff already having to have SI this term.

OP also contains links to scientists discussing how the current plans will ramp up spread of the virus, and the DfE article contains links to plummeting school attendance and schools having to close due to staff illness/needing to SI.

You're the one who's being selective Marsha. The OP has said explicitly that her area of concern is secondary schools as you're fully aware.

Nope.

Why are we even discussing what DfE did if everyone agrees it was right decision?

If you close a primary a week early you cause chaos for parents. I appreciate the same doesn’t apply for secondaries but I have two issues. Firstly the virus doesn’t magically appear aged 12: it isn’t helping to close secondaries and not primaries. And secondly secondary pupils have missed loads as it is! Especially exam classes!

It would have absolute minimum impact if it was my own son (if he was that age) because he has a teacher mother who would hover over him, a laptop and a safe place to work. We KNOW so many students don’t have this. It just widens that gap and it is so wrong.

I’m just loving that CallmeAngelina has brought bullying into this because she has been asked questions she doesn’t want to answer 😂

Welcometonowhere children are also exhausted, anxious and in a state by and large.

I'm not convinced that staggering on as we are with bubbles bursting left, right and centre, lots of supply and the constant anxiety that it will be your or your child next who has to SI for two weeks until 18th December is in their interests tbh, but I do get the childcare side of things before anyone accuses me of not doing so.

@christinarossetti19

Welcometonowhere children are also exhausted, anxious and in a state by and large.

I'm not convinced that staggering on as we are with bubbles bursting left, right and centre, lots of supply and the constant anxiety that it will be your or your child next who has to SI for two weeks until 18th December is in their interests tbh, but I do get the childcare side of things before anyone accuses me of not doing so.

Not everywhere is like this. And dc I see are not anxious but happy.

Marsha are you being deliberately obtuse, or are you ducking away from actually engaging with the discussion?

Do 'we all agree that the DfE did the right thing'? No idea.

I don't think they're doing particularly well on a national level, which is what OP is trying to discuss.

@christinarossetti19

Marsha are you being deliberately obtuse, or are you ducking away from actually engaging with the discussion?

Do 'we all agree that the DfE did the right thing'? No idea.

I don't think they're doing particularly well on a national level, which is what OP is trying to discuss.

I am engaging with discussion

Have you read the links in op?

The one from MAT the issue that DfE responded to with a no