Government denial over schools issues will cause deaths this Christmas

[noblegiraffe]

I just can't get my head around how utterly crazy the government Christmas policy is.

Secondary school kids are the most infected subset of the population with it now estimated that more than 1 in 50 of them are positive. As they are children, most of them will never be tested as they either are asymptomatic, or will display different symptoms to the main three that are required to trigger a test (councils are overruling this in some parts of England and asking parents to use a more sensible list of symptoms).

Schools mostly break up on 18th December, 5 days before the Christmas relaxation period begins and people start taking advantage of this to mix with other households indoors, in poorly ventilated small rooms, which as scientists warn, is a terrible idea. twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1331931594400149506?s=21

Closing schools a week earlier (or moving online) would give 2 weeks out of school before Christmas day, which would reduce the infection rate in school children significantly (we saw a dip in the infection rate just in one week over half term) and make it safer for them to mix with other households, particularly if people took advantage of those two weeks to significantly reduce their contacts and other risks.

Some schools took it upon themselves to protect their own communities by changing the term dates to close a week earlier. The DfE has overruled this and forced them to stay open.
schoolsweek.co.uk/overruled-dfes-sweeping-coronavirus-powers-force-trust-into-early-christmas-holiday-u-turn/

Because of the tier system, if families don't get together at Christmas during the relaxation period, when their children pose a much higher risk, they will not be able to see their families properly for Christmas at all. Essentially Christmas is being funnelled into a time period which is insanely risky due to it coming shortly after children mixing freely in unsafe schools with significant numbers of undiscovered infections.

I know the DfE have been reading this board. I understand why you want schools open, but lying to people about the risks as you have is dangerous and immoral. Transparency is needed so that people can make their own informed risk assessments, not propaganda about 'safe schools' and 'saving Christmas'.

@SomewhereEast

I did click on this thinking "Oh a lets-close-schools thread. WHO could possibly have started it???" Colour me surprised

Are you the DfE mole?

As an alternative they should have said the safe time to mix was the end of the school holidays (over new year not Christmas), as if everyone isolated for the first 10 days it would be much safer to see relatives (even if you wanted to do this, which was what I was hoping to do, it is now not allowed). We had much less cases the week after half term, so I think even 9 days would help slow transmission, most of those who tested positive got symptoms 6-8 days after the last day of term (this is in the middle of the mixing period at Christmas).

It does seem utter madness to have children mixing in school (and we know from ONS survey they have the highest rates) and then say meet up with other relatives 5 days later...

Why can't the Government implement the same policy as universities? The infection rate is HIGHER in schools.

I think because that would be admitting that there's a problem in schools. Everyone knows there was a problem in universities because it was headline news. They've managed to keep the schools issue off the news (god knows how) even though as you say, the infection rate in schools is now higher than universities.

I’m torn between being sad and angry.

I haven’t seen my mum who is in a nursing home since the week before Lockdown in March. DH and I have made the decision to not see any family, with us teaching 150+ pupils a day, our children at school and in wraparound care, our daily contacts are too great. We wore enough for our own health, let alone passing it onto our families. I still haven’t told my mum I won’t be seeing her. I can’t face that call at the moment.

I’m so angry with our Government. Yes pupils need and education but what my pupils are getting are half measures. Some year groups have been out of school longer than in and each day we wait to see whether we have an email telling us that we’ll be teaching from home as we have to keep closing due to staffing levels. My school is suffering at the moment. My heart sank when the Xmas bubble news came out. We have barely been able to cope over ‘lockdown’, now there’s going to be a free for all and we’re in Tier 3.

My son can't be taught online and we won't be seeing relatives at Christmas because we are not stupid.

@noblegiraffe

To be frank the issue of whether schools are ‘safe’ is beside point. No setting is or can be 100% ‘safe’- I.e. have no chance whatsoever it COVID transmitting in the current circumstances.

The question is whether any risk of transmission in schools is outweighed by the health, social and economic benefits to DC and society of schools being open.

The answer to that is an overwhelming yes. Which is why the government have made the decision to prioritise schools for remaining open.

As I say, I would not be averse to a one week early closure. But the precedent this would set with the unions in terms of further closures is why it cannot happen.

The unions seem to want schools closed until they are ‘safe’. Missing the point that nowhere is or can be absolutely safe at the moment.

I very much don’t want schools to close at all, not even for a week or two. But it does seem like normal term dates plus Christmas mixing is a recipe for awfulness.

I work back office of a college. We have been told that we will receive and extra 2 days from the 23rd December...
Fat lot of use that will be!

So ....... let elderly relatives of the stupid die? For the sake of a week?

@noblegiraffe

Why can't the Government implement the same policy as universities? The infection rate is HIGHER in schools.

I think because that would be admitting that there's a problem in schools. Everyone knows there was a problem in universities because it was headline news. They've managed to keep the schools issue off the news (god knows how) even though as you say, the infection rate in schools is now higher than universities.

Just how are they doing this? It bemuses me. All my local schools are sending kids him left, right and centre. Yet there seems to be a media blackout on it and Boris is adamant that 'at all costs children will remain in education'

At all costs folks, that says it all really.

Keep up the good work NG.

@StarryFire

The big issue in terms of closing schools is that if you set a precedent, I doubt they would reopen before April.

Personally I absolutely want schools to stay open. However, I could see why a one week early closure (except for exam groups) May be prudent.

The issue with this is that giving in to the unions on this would prevent schools reopening in the new year as unions will simply maintain the position that schools are unsafe.

I also think the lack of provision from schools during the original lockdown has made the government and parents extremely wary of closing them again. The unions have in many ways shot themselves in the foot with their opposition to online teaching, marking and one-to-one support.

I agree with this. I'm anti school closures in principle but would support an early closure to make the Christmas period safer for everyone. However, what happened in the spring and early summer makes many very sceptical indeed about home or blended learning.

I couldn’t agree more, op. Schools should be allowed to close a week early and should be being asked now to prepare work packs to be done at home

The big issue in terms of closing schools is that if you set a precedent, I doubt they would reopen before April

Not true. An extra weeks (holiday!) was added to the NI half term holidays but they reopened after, with a strong commitment to keep them open. One or two weeks planned as home learning does not mean schools will stay shut.

One council (Oldham) actually posted on twitter that schools are COVID safe , homes are not and the importance of school attendance.
I'm wondering how that tweet will hold if god forbid a child gets seriously ill.
They are stating that schools are safe so could a parent take them to court over that statement?

The question is whether any risk of transmission in schools is outweighed by the health, social and economic benefits to DC and society of schools being open

No, the question is why the government has done fuck-all to keep schools open. They have constantly asserted that there's no need for mitigation measures in schools despite soaring infection rates, and devastating absence rates due to covid. Their head-in-the-sand approach is closing or partly closing schools, not keeping them open.

The unions seem to want schools closed until they are ‘safe’.

Not true. Why are you spouting anti-union propaganda?

sending kids home

"So ....... let elderly relatives of the stupid die? For the sake of a week?"

Or let vulnerable children like mine attend school.

@starrynight19

Absolute madness. 4 cases in my class and I am showing symptoms awaiting results. Let’s see what happens come January. Hope the nhs are ready.

I hope you feel better very soon

Couldn't agree more, closing a week earlier would make Christmas bubbles safer for everybody. I'm in primary and there would be very little learning lost from not having the final week of term, it usually consists of nativity plays, Christmas parties, end of term assemblies and watching films - most of which can't happen this year anyway because of COVID!

My headteacher is also pushing for schools to open a week later after Christmas, she's aware of the mixing that the children will
Have done over Christmas and wants to protect her staff. I think she also realises that if staff aren't protected and have to go off then we'll be closed/isolating for several weeks in January anyway!

Why should my children have their education affected even more just because other people can’t go without having a big family Christmas? That’s what it comes down to. We won’t be seeing family and even if schools did close I’m not keeping them under lock and key for a fortnight for the sake of one day at Christmas. Delaying the start of term for a few days to minimise the impact of spreading caused up to the 27th would be enough.

Or let vulnerable children like mine attend school.

Well if hospitals get overrun then everyone suffers, including vulnerable children. Also the government could make provision for the vulnerable children.

But don't worry, I fully expect them to continue their Darwinian experiment.

It's not just a week either. He has already had 3 weeks this term with no provision at all.

@Gobacktothe90s

One council (Oldham) actually posted on twitter that schools are COVID safe , homes are not and the importance of school attendance. I'm wondering how that tweet will hold if god forbid a child gets seriously ill. They are stating that schools are safe so could a parent take them to court over that statement?

Or staff?

@Gobacktothe90s

The benefits to DC of being in school on a full time basis far outweigh any risk to them of COVID.

DC and teens are literally at more risk from flu.

The last week of term is normally not teaching based anyway...