Government denial over schools issues will cause deaths this Christmas

[noblegiraffe]

I just can't get my head around how utterly crazy the government Christmas policy is.

Secondary school kids are the most infected subset of the population with it now estimated that more than 1 in 50 of them are positive. As they are children, most of them will never be tested as they either are asymptomatic, or will display different symptoms to the main three that are required to trigger a test (councils are overruling this in some parts of England and asking parents to use a more sensible list of symptoms).

Schools mostly break up on 18th December, 5 days before the Christmas relaxation period begins and people start taking advantage of this to mix with other households indoors, in poorly ventilated small rooms, which as scientists warn, is a terrible idea. twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1331931594400149506?s=21

Closing schools a week earlier (or moving online) would give 2 weeks out of school before Christmas day, which would reduce the infection rate in school children significantly (we saw a dip in the infection rate just in one week over half term) and make it safer for them to mix with other households, particularly if people took advantage of those two weeks to significantly reduce their contacts and other risks.

Some schools took it upon themselves to protect their own communities by changing the term dates to close a week earlier. The DfE has overruled this and forced them to stay open.
schoolsweek.co.uk/overruled-dfes-sweeping-coronavirus-powers-force-trust-into-early-christmas-holiday-u-turn/

Because of the tier system, if families don't get together at Christmas during the relaxation period, when their children pose a much higher risk, they will not be able to see their families properly for Christmas at all. Essentially Christmas is being funnelled into a time period which is insanely risky due to it coming shortly after children mixing freely in unsafe schools with significant numbers of undiscovered infections.

I know the DfE have been reading this board. I understand why you want schools open, but lying to people about the risks as you have is dangerous and immoral. Transparency is needed so that people can make their own informed risk assessments, not propaganda about 'safe schools' and 'saving Christmas'.

MarshyBradyo if people are going to be moving around the country over Xmas, I think strategies do need to be national at the moment.

Regional and localised measures are to contain the virus in a particular geographical area.

Schools are unsafe. And there's lots of things that can be done to improve that without having to close them. Teacher unions are not campaigning for permanent school closures anyway, that's just anti-union propaganda

Yes. Sorry if previously linked don't have time to RTFT but the Indie Sage report on schools is excellent and gives lots of practical ways to make them OPEN but SAFER - very much echoes what we've all been saying on here for months. Debunks a lot of the DfE lies.

www.independentsage.org/an-urgent-plan-for-safer-schools/

Also this article in Independent on this report

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/independent-sage-coronavirus-infection-schools-b1762906.html

What is it that I don't have a clue about Nicknacky?

I've already explained that my business has been very badly affected by covid and needing to provide childcare. My busy periods are spring, summer and autumn. I've lost a lot of work, clients and pay.

So what exactly is it that I don't have a clue about?

@Nicknacky

christinarossetti You don’t have a clue do you? Absolutely clueless and so unwilling to accept that people can’t just “work shifts” or take annual leave at short notice.

Oh, I am a shift worker already.

I can’t take annual leave out with annual leave period and again, we can’t all go off at once, our customers won’t go elsewhere and will still need us!

H has a manufacturing business and whilst is flexible as he can be he has to be there or the business shuts, particularly as Christmas is a busy time for him and the chance to put money back into it. No annual leave for him or shift working!

I’m not in an unusual position, there are parents up and down the country in our potential pickle.

Yes the wittering about precious family time is tone deaf from MAT.

The reality is some families need to work and it won’t be precious to blanket force risk of job losses or financial loss. Many people are in bad places with this atm.

Ho can we know that 1 in 50 school children are infected if they are asymptomatic and haven't been tested? Am I missing something?

It would help if Government would publicly admit covid is spreading in schools - if they want people to make a proper risk assessment at Christmas, it doesn’t help to give the impression that children under the age of 18 are such a low risk for transmission spread if the data indicates otherwise, as that only encourages the idea that it’s OK for the kids to hug Grandma, so long as the adults hang back.

christinarossetti19 Jeez, I’m really having to spell it out for you, aren’t I?

You are unwilling to accept that some parents will struggle with this and can’t just juggle customers like you can. The struggle that small businesses are going though is a separate issue and one that is also affecting us. But we are discussing childcare and schools here.

You cry “work shifts”, “take annual leave” and won’t listen when posters tell you that can’t happen.

Is that clearer for you?

So most are saying they don’t think DfE did the wrong thing in saying no to MAT over primaries.

Secondaries can change quickly, ours is planned for this. Had practise days which have been good. If March hit didn’t slow it down that is.

CallmeAngelina opposite of the OP. But she won’t admit to that.

"So most are saying they don’t think DfE did the wrong thing in saying no to MAT over primaries."

Will you stop putting words in people's mouths? "Most" haven't said any such thing.

I think what is clear is that regardless of the individuals on this thread, closing schools impacts older students with important exams who already have missed a lot, and for younger pupils the impact on parents is serious.

If this was going to be done it should have been planned and announced months ago.

Welcometonowhere I absolutely agree.

It would also help if Government would give schools more money to cope with this. If it is recognised schools are vitally important to keep the country running, then where’s the money to prove it?

I can’t imagine the OP has any time to actually go into school, what with the daily doom post.
Some schools are badly affected, because they are in areas with a high rate. Many schools have not a single case or ever have had. But OP wants to close the lot of ‘em.
The obvious answer for OP is to become a zoom tutor. No chance of encountering covid-ridden young buggers then.
Indeed!

@bumblingbovine49

Independent sage had a lot of very interesting things to say about schools in their Friday briefing

Thanks for Thiam. That's very interesting. It says that France has kept schools Kippen n but kept transmission rates within schools because of extra mitigation measures.

It also talks about how the UK had the largest class sizes of any European country.

My DDs 6th form college has kept cars low. They recently retorted them all transparently to us in an email to parents. The students wear face coverings in classes. When students have to self isolate the teacher streams their live class on Teams. Before March lockdown, deprived students were sorted out with devices and means to participate. They already had their structure in their favour. 6 x 3.5 hour lessons per week put of a possible 10 teaching periods. No tutor groups. The government should be learning from other institutions that are doing well and facilitating schools to implement similar solutions. But I think the main issue is our schools are just so crowded compared to other countries schools. Class sizes are ridiculous.

@CallmeAngelina

"So most are saying they don’t think DfE did the wrong thing in saying no to MAT over primaries."

Will you stop putting words in people's mouths? "Most" haven't said any such thing.

Well come in then

I’ll ask again

Anyone agree?

You and Christina said not

Months ago, the Government was even less inclined to acknowledge the spread factor in schools. Why on earth do you think they would have announced any such thing?

No one else responded so it was 2 out of 2.

I’ll wait for someone to say primaries should shut to all.

@Covidnomore

Explain why lockdown 2 hasn't seen infection rates fall as fast as the first lockdown.

On 06/11 my city had over 60 cases. On 22/11 it was 14 cases.

I think that's pretty good going.

There you go Similar stats here

Sorry so many typos. The main one to correct is 6 x 2.5 hour lessons

2 posters? You're saying that's "most?"

(And I said I hadn't "called for" closures, to be accurate).

So again do you support closure or not?

CallMeAngelina Do you support the proposed plan of extending the holidays?

I know you are not a scientist!

All the risks now are exactly the same as this time last year just we didn’t know. The virus was already in the UK. We were going about our business. Oblivious to what was coming.

I think people should only mix if they really want/need to. Not everyone will. People will make their decisions based on their family.

My mum is dying. I won’t see her over Christmas because I have just seen her. Without a doubt it’s her last Christmas. Everyone will make choices. If my family visit her I won’t begrudge them! I am glad they get the choice.

You might see it as clear cut what should be done when really every family has their own decision to make.

Yep all of those that replied actually, people are being mealy mouthed over it. Closure or not?

Or should DfE have said yes and teachers would risk same childcare issue.