Government denial over schools issues will cause deaths this Christmas

[noblegiraffe]

I just can't get my head around how utterly crazy the government Christmas policy is.

Secondary school kids are the most infected subset of the population with it now estimated that more than 1 in 50 of them are positive. As they are children, most of them will never be tested as they either are asymptomatic, or will display different symptoms to the main three that are required to trigger a test (councils are overruling this in some parts of England and asking parents to use a more sensible list of symptoms).

Schools mostly break up on 18th December, 5 days before the Christmas relaxation period begins and people start taking advantage of this to mix with other households indoors, in poorly ventilated small rooms, which as scientists warn, is a terrible idea. twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1331931594400149506?s=21

Closing schools a week earlier (or moving online) would give 2 weeks out of school before Christmas day, which would reduce the infection rate in school children significantly (we saw a dip in the infection rate just in one week over half term) and make it safer for them to mix with other households, particularly if people took advantage of those two weeks to significantly reduce their contacts and other risks.

Some schools took it upon themselves to protect their own communities by changing the term dates to close a week earlier. The DfE has overruled this and forced them to stay open.
schoolsweek.co.uk/overruled-dfes-sweeping-coronavirus-powers-force-trust-into-early-christmas-holiday-u-turn/

Because of the tier system, if families don't get together at Christmas during the relaxation period, when their children pose a much higher risk, they will not be able to see their families properly for Christmas at all. Essentially Christmas is being funnelled into a time period which is insanely risky due to it coming shortly after children mixing freely in unsafe schools with significant numbers of undiscovered infections.

I know the DfE have been reading this board. I understand why you want schools open, but lying to people about the risks as you have is dangerous and immoral. Transparency is needed so that people can make their own informed risk assessments, not propaganda about 'safe schools' and 'saving Christmas'.

Eh is it too early?

It was to Christina

To _Angelina

Last post that is

You don’t need to jump in it wasn’t to op.

I can't say this any clearer.

School closures are a nightmare, for children's education and socialisation, for childcare esp for women, for teaching staff still trying to do their job with their own children at home, mental health, safeguarding. the list goes on.

If the plan for Xmas mixing goes ahead, the virus and its devastating knock on effects will spread. Areas of the country with very low rates (rates are falling in my area of London at the moment) will see a reverse in that. Schools which haven't had one positive case will see cases and bubbles/year groups/the whole institution will close for at least two weeks.

We know that rates of infection amongst secondary school children in particular dropped significantly after half-term, even though children weren't isolating at home. The data would therefore indicate that reducing spread in schools across the whole country at the same time will reduce the overall spread of the virus come 2021.

I think we all want the same thing - schools to be as safe as possible and to be operating as 'normally' as they can.

There are different views as to how that may be achieved.

Does anyone actually agree with MAT that primaries should close with this short notice for all students?

christinarossetti19 So what is your childcare solution?

MarshyBradyo I've no idea whether the DfE did the right thing.

My sense is that anything that happens re adjustments to the school year needs to happen on a national level as it did in March not a MAT or other level to be effective.

Aside from obviously when some schools have had to close completely due to rates of infection/SI at a days notice.

CallMeAngelia I’m genuinely curious if she has a solution I’m missing . Otherwise she doesn’t have a clue what parents like me are facing and it’s always those people to bang their drum the loudest.

@MarshaBradyo

Last post that is

You don’t need to jump in it wasn’t to op.

OK, mis-read. Maybe too early, yes.

But I'll "jump in" wherever I see fit, regardless of what you're trying to imply.

@CallmeAngelina

"Do people think that once unions got their way and got the places shut that they’d get their members back in?"

Once again, slowly and with emphasis: School. Closures. Had/Have. Nothing. To. Do. With. The. Unions.

I know this. But unions are NOW agitating for them to shut. Once that was done, they’d just ballot for industrial action and keep their members out or tell them all not to return to school on health and safety grounds. I know full well how trade unions work. Closing schools would of course not be their decision but it would be playing right into their hands.

Can anyone answer me this? Why is such a fuss being made of testing university students before they come home for Christmas, and why are they being asked to come home early? I mean, if it is safe for schoolchildren, the only group where rates are still going up, not down, to carry on at school until the end of term and then travel across the country to see their grandparents at Christmas, why isn’t it safe for uni students to do so without getting tested first?

Nicknacky my childcare solution for what? This fantasy week when schools close early?

It's not going to happen, but if and when my children need to self-isolate I'll have to juggle things around with my clients where possible (this isn't ideal for someone who has their own business but as I said everyone has lost something in the pandemic), work into the small hours, lose some pay and possibly some clients.

The Xmas period itself isn't a busy time in my work. Spring, summer and autumn are usually though - that was all a bit of a bummer! We're not going to mix, I can't get my head around spreading the virus over Xmas and possibly sending my children back to school carrying it asymptomatically in the NY.

Call
Well you can but as you said it was misread.

Do you think primaries should close to all students a week early? With this short notice.

If DfE had not made uturn you’d get other schools following. Even teachers would face childcare issues.

Forced u turn that is

Thing is it’s just a difference of opinion. It doesn’t make you or the other people supporting school closures right and those who oppose it wrong. To me the answer is mentally capable grown adults behaving in a responsible manner.

christinerossetti19 When I said last night that I presumed you didn’t have childcare issues, you said I presumed wrong? So what will you do in the event of a short notice closure?

Ah, so you can juggle things and won’t have childcare issues? I thought as much.

Walkaround it's not 'safe' for school children if by 'safe' you mean knowing that they are not carrying the virus when they're travelling around the country.

Routine testing of university students threw up loads of asymptomatic cases. The govt won't introduce routine testing in schools for that very reason.

It depends what you call a childcare issue Nicknacky. I've said that I will lose work, pay and clients if schools close. Indeed, I have said that that's exactly what's happened to my business since March.

That is a childcare (or lack of) issue, isn't it?

@christinarossetti19

Walkaround it's not 'safe' for school children if by 'safe' you mean knowing that they are not carrying the virus when they're travelling around the country.

Routine testing of university students threw up loads of asymptomatic cases. The govt won't introduce routine testing in schools for that very reason.

I wonder if Liverpool brought anything up.

Iirc the ONS chart shows pressure on secondary so primaries should not close early especially as effect is greater for many reasons.

I don’t agree that solutions need to be national. Some schools will not be impacted same way and if they are switch to remote.

christinarossetti19 You can be there for your child should the school shut. Therefore that is a solution.

And you have two other adults to call on, the ability to work shifts and take annual leave.

That's your solution.

"Do you think primaries should close to all students a week early? With this short notice."

I have never called for them to do so. But that doesn't mean I can't recognise that we have a serious problem ahead, due to the Government's continued denial that there is an issue in schools generally (particularly secondary), even if individual posters on here persist in claiming theirs is fine. They may be - at the moment, but it can turn on a pin.
Name me ONE place today, where it's deemed OK for dozens (not to mention hundreds) of people are permitted to congregate in enclosed, poorly ventilated spaces, with few (if any) masks, apart from schools.

"Call, Well you can but as you said it was misread."

You're ignoring my point. You pointed out that you weren't speaking to the OP, therefore there was no need for me to jump in. That was implying that I blindly defend the OP regardless.
Which is bollocks.

christinarossetti You don’t have a clue do you? Absolutely clueless and so unwilling to accept that people can’t just “work shifts” or take annual leave at short notice.

Oh, I am a shift worker already.

I can’t take annual leave out with annual leave period and again, we can’t all go off at once, our customers won’t go elsewhere and will still need us!

H has a manufacturing business and whilst is flexible as he can be he has to be there or the business shuts, particularly as Christmas is a busy time for him and the chance to put money back into it. No annual leave for him or shift working!

I’m not in an unusual position, there are parents up and down the country in our potential pickle.