Government denial over schools issues will cause deaths this Christmas

[noblegiraffe]

I just can't get my head around how utterly crazy the government Christmas policy is.

Secondary school kids are the most infected subset of the population with it now estimated that more than 1 in 50 of them are positive. As they are children, most of them will never be tested as they either are asymptomatic, or will display different symptoms to the main three that are required to trigger a test (councils are overruling this in some parts of England and asking parents to use a more sensible list of symptoms).

Schools mostly break up on 18th December, 5 days before the Christmas relaxation period begins and people start taking advantage of this to mix with other households indoors, in poorly ventilated small rooms, which as scientists warn, is a terrible idea. twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1331931594400149506?s=21

Closing schools a week earlier (or moving online) would give 2 weeks out of school before Christmas day, which would reduce the infection rate in school children significantly (we saw a dip in the infection rate just in one week over half term) and make it safer for them to mix with other households, particularly if people took advantage of those two weeks to significantly reduce their contacts and other risks.

Some schools took it upon themselves to protect their own communities by changing the term dates to close a week earlier. The DfE has overruled this and forced them to stay open.
schoolsweek.co.uk/overruled-dfes-sweeping-coronavirus-powers-force-trust-into-early-christmas-holiday-u-turn/

Because of the tier system, if families don't get together at Christmas during the relaxation period, when their children pose a much higher risk, they will not be able to see their families properly for Christmas at all. Essentially Christmas is being funnelled into a time period which is insanely risky due to it coming shortly after children mixing freely in unsafe schools with significant numbers of undiscovered infections.

I know the DfE have been reading this board. I understand why you want schools open, but lying to people about the risks as you have is dangerous and immoral. Transparency is needed so that people can make their own informed risk assessments, not propaganda about 'safe schools' and 'saving Christmas'.

Nicknacky it would indeed be unlucky if you and your colleagues' children have to isolate at the same time, but that's exactly what has been happening in areas of the country with rapidly increasing covid cases.

Yes I obviously understand the childcare issues. Which will be the same in the NY when cases soar after all the Xmas mixing.

Covidnomore no-one has suggested locking children up. The point is that schools are absolutely rife with covid. Infection rates among school aged children dropped significantly after the half-term break. Rates are rising very quickly at the moment. Allowing covid to become even more rife in schools will lead to more schools closing especially after everyone has spread the virus around over Xmas.

As I've said up thread, the most sensible thing would be for the govt to abandon the Xmas plan to spread covid around as much as possible via bubbles. Given that that's not going to happen, closing the super spreading institutions ie schools a week early would reduce that as a public health issue.

Apologies Herc.

Someone else said schools should close early but noone needed to self isolate which seems pointless to me.

I don't agree at all with Govt policy.

I would not be against an additional week holiday / online learning if it was a fire break.

I am against it so that people can go crazy over Christmas.

Covidnomore rates of infection did drop after half-term.

That's what the data says.

It would make sense to use that data to plan public health policy.

I can't make this any clearer for you.

Christinarossetti19 Oh that’s good you understand the childcare issues it causes people, many posters don’t and for them it’s irrelevant. But it’s a massive problem and in normal times people would be horrified by the lack of notice.

People need to think outside their own box about what jobs people might do where they can’t not just go to work.

Of course it won't happen now.

But 2 weeks is more notice than if your child has to isolate. Mines had 2 x2 weeks already this term. I know all about no notice, unpaid leave etc.

The students I teach wouldn't need childcare. So perhaps I am not giving that as much weight in my thought process. I think primary could remain open although the teachers there having to isolate if they get a positive case after the 11th would be rubbish.

Children have lost so much school time this year and the routine and sense of normality that comes with that, closing schools or messing around with term dates so they can mix with people they don’t need to mix with and could go for a nice walk with instead is bonkers

I'm sorry but for me my child's need to see family other than me and his father is higher than, at age 4, his need for school.

No "going for a nice walk" is a completely shite replacement. My little boy cried every day from March to July that he didn't cuddle my mum. Ordinarily we popped in and out of each other's houses.

So yes I will see her at Christmas and yes I will isolate him for 2 weeks before and 2 weeks after.

Nicknacky childcare has been a bloody nightmare for most of us since March on and off.

In normal times, people would have been horrified by being informed that every school in the country was closing for an unspecified period of time on 20th March, but that's what happened.

These aren't normal times.

@Nicknacky

Timeontimeoff There has been significant out breaks at nursing homes, the one my gran is in has had half infected and 6 die. I’ve not looked into the actual figures though.

Apparently there are 500 kids off self isolating but I don’t know off hand what kind of proportion that relates to.

That's really sad.

Why people keep thinking shutting schools will stop the nursing home outbreaks?

Locally our cases are all due to cross infection on a hospital ward!

Better protection at nursing homes and hospital wards is vital. Shutting schools early won't change that.

I agree with this schools closing as a firebreak with a lockdown does at least make sense. Schools shut everyone going about business as usual really doesn’t make much sense. However, as wales are considering another lockdown do firebreaks really work? Or is it that schools were open the second week?

They might well have. In March you only got a test if you were hospitalised.

Yes that was part of the post. Or previous one maybe.

We did have many staff off but no way of knowing. But if so quite a few could still have immunity impacting numbers now.

Hercwasonaroll I feel I need to repeat myself yet again. I can deal with last minute isolation as can my work. We are expecting it and can cope with that. And I get paid for it.

They cannot have all the parents of young children off at the same time in the event of short notice closures.

Think outside your box!

Why can’t you understand that?

christinarossetti19 How many drug deaths do you attend a week? Or sexual assaults?

@BungleandGeorge

I agree with this schools closing as a firebreak with a lockdown does at least make sense. Schools shut everyone going about business as usual really doesn’t make much sense. However, as wales are considering another lockdown do firebreaks really work? Or is it that schools were open the second week?

Except the data shows that infection rates amongst secondary school aged children dropped significantly after the half-term break.

So the data suggests that actually closing schools to suppress the infection rate does make sense.

@BungleandGeorge

I agree with this schools closing as a firebreak with a lockdown does at least make sense. Schools shut everyone going about business as usual really doesn’t make much sense. However, as wales are considering another lockdown do firebreaks really work? Or is it that schools were open the second week?

Are they? Firebreaks are dubious. Renaming short lockdown. Lockdown has impact as they occur.

Christina do you think some parents may not have got their children tested over half term?

My city was on the upward trend during and after half term. Its only in the last week or so, probably due to lockdown that cases have really dropped.

What I don't understand is that people (some of whom don't even have kids) are expected to sacrifice financial stability, familial relationships and their mental health in order to keep kids in school, but others aren't prepared to sacrifice one week of their child's schooling (IF they can, I fully recognise many cannot) in order that others can benefit.

@Nicknacky

christinarossetti19 How many drug deaths do you attend a week? Or sexual assaults?

None. What did your workplace do in March when schools closed indefinitely at a few days notice?

@Nicknacky

Hercwasonaroll I feel I need to repeat myself yet again. I can deal with last minute isolation as can my work. We are expecting it and can cope with that. And I get paid for it.

They cannot have all the parents of young children off at the same time in the event of short notice closures.

Think outside your box!

Why can’t you understand that?

Totally agree with you.

Some assume all the spread is down to schools...it isn't

Covidnomore I've no idea why people wouldn't get their children tested over half-term.

Secondary school teacher married to another secondary school teacher. Absolutely everyone we know is saying exactly this. We all know the truth and are asking these same questions. Our large London secondary has now lost at least a year group a week since October half term. It’s insane, the place is CRAWLING with Covid. Christmas will cause a tsunami of deaths or vulnerable people in January if they insist on doing this.

They cannot have all the parents of young children off at the same time in the event of short notice closures.

Think outside your box!

How rude.

It's conceivable that a few of you could get children needing to isolate at the same time. Especially if you live near to work and infection rates rise locally. In September we were one of the best towns for infection rates in the country. Now each school has had multiple classes isolating since before half term and infection rates are still rising.

Think outside your box!

Nicknacky why don't you try thinking outside of your box and of the people who won't get paid when they need to self-isolate.

Your position of 'it's no problem if it's just me at work having to self-isolate with my child for two weeks' isn't relevant to them.

Some assume all the spread is down to schools...it isn't

The majority of it is.

Explain the half term dip otherwise.

Explain why lockdown 2 hasn't seen infection rates fall as fast as the first lockdown.

Do people really think that because some schools have to close, all schools should?

What do you all do when you have some children out because of illness?

Or some staff out for the same reason, or a trip (in non Covid times)?