Government denial over schools issues will cause deaths this Christmas

[noblegiraffe]

I just can't get my head around how utterly crazy the government Christmas policy is.

Secondary school kids are the most infected subset of the population with it now estimated that more than 1 in 50 of them are positive. As they are children, most of them will never be tested as they either are asymptomatic, or will display different symptoms to the main three that are required to trigger a test (councils are overruling this in some parts of England and asking parents to use a more sensible list of symptoms).

Schools mostly break up on 18th December, 5 days before the Christmas relaxation period begins and people start taking advantage of this to mix with other households indoors, in poorly ventilated small rooms, which as scientists warn, is a terrible idea. twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1331931594400149506?s=21

Closing schools a week earlier (or moving online) would give 2 weeks out of school before Christmas day, which would reduce the infection rate in school children significantly (we saw a dip in the infection rate just in one week over half term) and make it safer for them to mix with other households, particularly if people took advantage of those two weeks to significantly reduce their contacts and other risks.

Some schools took it upon themselves to protect their own communities by changing the term dates to close a week earlier. The DfE has overruled this and forced them to stay open.
schoolsweek.co.uk/overruled-dfes-sweeping-coronavirus-powers-force-trust-into-early-christmas-holiday-u-turn/

Because of the tier system, if families don't get together at Christmas during the relaxation period, when their children pose a much higher risk, they will not be able to see their families properly for Christmas at all. Essentially Christmas is being funnelled into a time period which is insanely risky due to it coming shortly after children mixing freely in unsafe schools with significant numbers of undiscovered infections.

I know the DfE have been reading this board. I understand why you want schools open, but lying to people about the risks as you have is dangerous and immoral. Transparency is needed so that people can make their own informed risk assessments, not propaganda about 'safe schools' and 'saving Christmas'.

Welcometonowhere they are indeed valid points and are as pertinent to considering the post Xmas increase there will be in infections thus families having to self-isolate for two weeks.

No-one will have any annual leave to take then either. Lots of people just won't get paid if they aren't able to go to work. No possibility of paying for childcare or having extended family providing childcare if you're SI.

The most sensible thing to do would be for the govt to scrap the plan to permit people to travel across the country and mix inside for protracted periods of time.

Unfortunately, that's not going to happen.

christinarossetti19 If my child has to isolate then I am only one worker that needs to be off.

If schools shut longer either before or after Christmas for longer then several of us are affected. I’m in a specialised department where if we are not in work, then the public don’t get the service they require.

Does that make it clearer for you?

You are in a secure position as a teacher herc and a reasonably good salary. It is disingenuous to make out this applies to everybody.

Are you really a part time Teacher giraffe? Or on ML?
How do find the time to keep your continual posts going?
Besides ML or maybe another possibly better paid Union role how do you do it?

That's even assuming you have no other life or responsibilities besides your 'teaching' and MN posting.

You are truly magnificent, how on earth do you do it?

@Covidnomore

If several of you have to self-isolate at the same time, then workplaces will have to cope in some shape or form

Shut A&E? Close the Maternity Ward? Stop carers going into homes? Leaving many vulnerable people isolated?

But yeah everything can just carry on......

Many A&E departments have been shut, and services transferred to another hospital.

Clinics and depts like maternity or home carers get agency in.

It's not ideal, very far from it, but that's what's been keeping the country going since March.

It appals me that people doing these vital jobs, like health care and teaching, will be put at increased risk in the NY due to the govt's Xmas bubbling plans.

christinarossi19 the department I’m in can’t divert anywhere....l

There are very few schools with no cases.

Really? Secondary maybe. But can you say the same for Primary?

@Susanwouldntlikeit

And closing all schools because some schools are in trouble is not a solution. Precisely. My school has had one teacher case, two pupils (one asymptomatic) a d only contacts close on searing plan isolating do no years groups ‘bubbles’ out. Like other schools near us. So closing is a total overreaction. Lots if he ‘elderly’ are probably only too happy to have an excuse to avoid reluctant family members anyway. Let them decide if they want to ‘risk’ it.

Same here. Two cases in school, no spread no one very ill school stayed open throughout. Really don't need to close early or longer than the usual long holiday break

There have been very few cases at my kids primary school (or secondary) and we are tier 4!

I don't think I have made that out anywhere? I appreciate my secure position. I'd argue I'm not particularly well paid for the level of responsibility and number of hours worked (75 last week). However that would be a complete de rail.

I'm in school daily, I can see the reality. Covid is spreading in schools. A proper lockdown with a week of closed schools would really drive infection rates down. Especially just before (or after) everyone mixes. (which they will on a population level, despite individuals choosing not to).

@Nicknacky

There have been very few cases at my kids primary school (or secondary) and we are tier 4!

Wow...stupid isn't it Where are the cases in your area? Nursing homes? Factories etc?

@Nicknacky

christinarossetti19 If my child has to isolate then I am only one worker that needs to be off.

If schools shut longer either before or after Christmas for longer then several of us are affected. I’m in a specialised department where if we are not in work, then the public don’t get the service they require.

Does that make it clearer for you?

If your colleagues also have children who need to self-isolate then several of you may all be off at the same time.

No-one has suggested that if schools close earlier that all parents, children and teachers need to self-isolate for that week. Just that not being at school reduces the number of contacts that people have.

Does that make it clearer for you?

Compared to someone on a zero hour contract on minimum wage, we are well paid.

Compared to footballers, we are not However, we are above the national average, not that that means much.

But the point is that there are consequences to schools closing and one of these consequences is a disproportionate impact on working parents. Especially mothers.

Closing schools early would be absolutely no benefit to me at all because I'm a granny but I've also got a daughter attending an infant school (I know I'm insane 😂),
But in all seriousness for 5 days of mixing ( I won't be doing ) the kids are going to miss so much education in January February it's really not worth it 😫

christinarossetti19 It would be incredibly unlikely and unlucky that our kids self isolate at exactly the same time as they don’t go to the same schools. That would be a complete fluke.

It’s not about self isolating. If my 6 year old is off then she can’t stay home alone.

Can you really, really not see that?

No-one has suggested that if schools close earlier that all parents, children and teachers need to self-isolate for that week.

So lock kids away but everyone else go about their business as normal.

Including the elderly who this is supposed to protect........

What is the point of closing schools early if noone needs to isolate?

How is that going to stop the spread?

The average teacher wage is above the national average (only just).

There are plenty of teachers out there earning very little.

Of course there are consequences to schools closing. I'm not blind to them. However there are consequences to schools remaining open. Particularly schools riddled with coronavirus. The government blanket "no school should shut" mantra isn't acceptable.

Timeontimeoff There has been significant out breaks at nursing homes, the one my gran is in has had half infected and 6 die. I’ve not looked into the actual figures though.

Apparently there are 500 kids off self isolating but I don’t know off hand what kind of proportion that relates to.

What is the point of closing schools early if noone needs to isolate?

The point is you don't know who needs to because there are so many asymptomatic people around. Therefore a two week isolation for all before Christmas would be wise.

Herc teachers definitely don't get paid enough.

I know it may seem like a lot to many, but it really isn't.

I don’t think you are blind to it herc but I do think you are viewing it through a teacher lens.

We are not rich. I am as aware of that as anybody. Just the same, our roles are secure and I imagine most of us are comfortable.

We know this is not the case for many of the children we teach. Someone in a role that is insecure and/or badly paid having to take time off prior to Christmas and immediately after another lockdown is not a good idea.

Herc With two weeks notice?!

Herc but you said people didn't need to isolate.....or did I misread that?

@MarshaBradyo

Also if it runs rampant as quickly as people say then there’s no reason it wouldn’t have in March in London schools that got hit.

They might well have. In March you only got a test if you were hospitalised.