Government denial over schools issues will cause deaths this Christmas

[noblegiraffe]

I just can't get my head around how utterly crazy the government Christmas policy is.

Secondary school kids are the most infected subset of the population with it now estimated that more than 1 in 50 of them are positive. As they are children, most of them will never be tested as they either are asymptomatic, or will display different symptoms to the main three that are required to trigger a test (councils are overruling this in some parts of England and asking parents to use a more sensible list of symptoms).

Schools mostly break up on 18th December, 5 days before the Christmas relaxation period begins and people start taking advantage of this to mix with other households indoors, in poorly ventilated small rooms, which as scientists warn, is a terrible idea. twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1331931594400149506?s=21

Closing schools a week earlier (or moving online) would give 2 weeks out of school before Christmas day, which would reduce the infection rate in school children significantly (we saw a dip in the infection rate just in one week over half term) and make it safer for them to mix with other households, particularly if people took advantage of those two weeks to significantly reduce their contacts and other risks.

Some schools took it upon themselves to protect their own communities by changing the term dates to close a week earlier. The DfE has overruled this and forced them to stay open.
schoolsweek.co.uk/overruled-dfes-sweeping-coronavirus-powers-force-trust-into-early-christmas-holiday-u-turn/

Because of the tier system, if families don't get together at Christmas during the relaxation period, when their children pose a much higher risk, they will not be able to see their families properly for Christmas at all. Essentially Christmas is being funnelled into a time period which is insanely risky due to it coming shortly after children mixing freely in unsafe schools with significant numbers of undiscovered infections.

I know the DfE have been reading this board. I understand why you want schools open, but lying to people about the risks as you have is dangerous and immoral. Transparency is needed so that people can make their own informed risk assessments, not propaganda about 'safe schools' and 'saving Christmas'.

christinarossetti19 Thankfully my husband nearly lost his business so he was off, and when he went back thankfully my dad was still forloughed. We are all working now.

My work were really flexible which is generally speaking unusual and have continued to be. But as you can see from my line of work we HAVE to be in.

Oh and I lost my childminder as she let me down with 12 hours notice and I couldn’t go to work that day. That was nice.

So we don’t all number crunch in front of computers.

Hercsonaroll Trust me I’m not being rude. And again to repeat myself, the chances of us having our children off at the same time when they all go to different schools (and hardly any have been off here anyway) are remote.

What do you all do when you have some children out because of illness?

I've never had entire year groups at home. Or half a class even in normal times.

The whole point is that it's not normal times.

Explain why lockdown 2 hasn't seen infection rates fall as fast as the first lockdown.

On 06/11 my city had over 60 cases. On 22/11 it was 14 cases.

I think that's pretty good going.

christinarossett19 What on earth are you talking about? We haven’t mentioned parents who don’t get paid....

Why did you expect me to mention those parents when that hadn’t been brought up yet?

Lucky for you the chance of a two week notice closure is remote!

What would you have done in March?

Nickynacky so your workplace remained open because staff were able to juggle some sort of childcare for months.

All the staff who have children who it would be fine to be self-isolating as long as it wasn't all together managed to carry on working.

Yet this would be impossible under any circumstances for a week in December when loads of children are unwell and off school in a normal year?

Interesting.

Your city is not the whole country....

christinarossetti19 Have you actually worked out what I work as? Of course my work place remained open😂.

Hercsonaroll I have already answered that, my h nearly lost his company and then when that was sorted my dad helped out. Now we are all working again thankfully.

@Nicknacky

christinarossett19 What on earth are you talking about? We haven’t mentioned parents who don’t get paid....

Why did you expect me to mention those parents when that hadn’t been brought up yet?

It's you who keeps telling people to 'think outside their box' in the same posts that you mention that it won't be a problem for you to have to self-isolate for two weeks as your workplace are expecting it and you'll be paid.

I'm suggesting that you think outside of your box as to why two weeks of self-isolation isn't a minor problem for lots of families, like those who don't get paid when they're not at work.

That’s not what I mean, Herc

“St John’s Infants have had to have Year 2 and Reception isolating, so we must close Woodfield Primary immediately”?

That makes as much sense as ‘Sam, Tom, Hannah, William and Ellie are all home sick, so I won’t teach the other 25 children in my class.”

Hercswasonaroll Wrong name....

Nicknacky then I'm sure that it could remain open if schools closed a week early for public health reasons at Xmas.

Personally our local infection numbers have more than halved for the last set of figures (which I think ended 23 Nov). The North has generally decreased significantly over lockdown whilst some of the South has increased.
There aren’t many people defending Christmas mixing, either they’re all staying quiet or (hopefully) lots of people are planning to refrain

christinarossetti19 You are trying to twist something that isn’t there.

I think it’s a travesty that some parents don’t get paid and that’s why we need to avoid adding to their financial woes by extending Christmas holidays.

Does that make sense to you now?

But if you didn't have those childcare options, what would you have done? There must be a back up plan somewhere.

I don't think anyone's arguing that schools should close because another school is shut. They're arguing schools should close to prevent infection spread.

I'm taking mine out from 11th, if the government will not make the only sensible decision i can see then i will...
I'll pay the fines if I need to but I honestly can't see how else we can see anyone safely.

It's nice you have that choice, plenty don't.

Herc of course it isn't.

But people want decisions made on their situation.

Well so do I. I don't want my DC school to be forced to close as said school has been 100% open since September until now.

Of course that may change, but looking at the data things are looking better again locally.

christinarossetti19 My work place is open 24/7, 365 days a weeks. But we have to be sufficiently staffed to deal with the public and Christmas is not a quiet time for us.

@Hercwasonaroll

Some assume all the spread is down to schools...it isn't

The majority of it is.

Explain the half term dip otherwise.

Explain why lockdown 2 hasn't seen infection rates fall as fast as the first lockdown.

More testing now so picking up more cases. Barely anyone was tested during or after the last lock down so asymptomatic cases were not recorded as they are now! Rates are dropping with this lock down hence going back to tiers

Nicknacky we need to avoid adding to families financial woes by doing all we can to suppress the spread of covid.

Given the barmy Xmas bubbles plan launched by the govt, closing schools a week early would be a way of doing that. Not as effective as not permitting lots of mixing over Xmas but, given the data that we have, the most effective public health strategy on offer at the moment.

Does that make sense to you now?

Herswasonaroll Fuck knows what I would have done apart from doing late shifts and nightshift instead of dayshift. But we need sufficient staffing levels on the dayshift too, so that wasn’t a great option.

christinarossetti19 ok, I will give our drug users two weeks notice not to overdose👍

The premise of the OP is that schools should close a week early. I don’t feel they should.

No, the premise of the OP is that the government will be to blame for the ensuing deaths because they have actively prevented schools from closing early while at the same time lying to the general public about the risk of covid in school children.