Government denial over schools issues will cause deaths this Christmas

[noblegiraffe]

I just can't get my head around how utterly crazy the government Christmas policy is.

Secondary school kids are the most infected subset of the population with it now estimated that more than 1 in 50 of them are positive. As they are children, most of them will never be tested as they either are asymptomatic, or will display different symptoms to the main three that are required to trigger a test (councils are overruling this in some parts of England and asking parents to use a more sensible list of symptoms).

Schools mostly break up on 18th December, 5 days before the Christmas relaxation period begins and people start taking advantage of this to mix with other households indoors, in poorly ventilated small rooms, which as scientists warn, is a terrible idea. twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1331931594400149506?s=21

Closing schools a week earlier (or moving online) would give 2 weeks out of school before Christmas day, which would reduce the infection rate in school children significantly (we saw a dip in the infection rate just in one week over half term) and make it safer for them to mix with other households, particularly if people took advantage of those two weeks to significantly reduce their contacts and other risks.

Some schools took it upon themselves to protect their own communities by changing the term dates to close a week earlier. The DfE has overruled this and forced them to stay open.
schoolsweek.co.uk/overruled-dfes-sweeping-coronavirus-powers-force-trust-into-early-christmas-holiday-u-turn/

Because of the tier system, if families don't get together at Christmas during the relaxation period, when their children pose a much higher risk, they will not be able to see their families properly for Christmas at all. Essentially Christmas is being funnelled into a time period which is insanely risky due to it coming shortly after children mixing freely in unsafe schools with significant numbers of undiscovered infections.

I know the DfE have been reading this board. I understand why you want schools open, but lying to people about the risks as you have is dangerous and immoral. Transparency is needed so that people can make their own informed risk assessments, not propaganda about 'safe schools' and 'saving Christmas'.

CallMeAngelin Personally for me I can deal with last minute isolation if/when it happens and my workplace will be fine. They are expecting it of us.

Short notice planned closure? Not so much. Many of my colleagues have young children at school and we can’t all be off, one or two max. So my kids would probably have to go to a pals house while I work. I’ve no other option.

Because herc not every school is closing. It really is as simple as that. It’s about minimising inconvenience, not removing it altogether.

@BungleandGeorge

If schools shut for many people childcare is grandparents, the very people we’re trying to protect? Work isn’t optional unlike Christmas dinners. there was nothing here over summer, if school shuts the school based childcare presumably will again and there aren’t other options a lot of places. School also stops children from mixing in an unregulated way, shops and restaurants/ cinemas etc are open many places, kids will all be out mixing with a much wider community. I do t think it’s as simple as saying an extra week off will prevent wider infections

I can't help but feel angry that schools are getting all the flack for parents failing to follow the rules. Part of me thinks, stuff it, I am happy working up to Christmas, and then release the kids into the care of their parents and it is up to them to make whatever decisions they choose to make. THEN, after the maelstrom that's created, keep schools remote learning until the infectious period is over without inflicting their choices on me in my workplace. However, morally, it just feels wrong when we know what the kids will be taking into their communities once they leave school for Christmas

@Welcometonowhere

I’ve been through this angelina, tbh. If a school needs to close because of infection levels, that’s one thing. It doesn’t mean every single school should be closed. Let’s say one in three schools needs to close in January (a lot.) There will still be far more open.

What other schools may or may not be doing is irrelevant to the families who need to isolate. They won't be saying, "Oh well, never mind that we're in a hole with having to isolate, at least other schools are open."

@noblegiraffe

I've got gloves for work (now we haven't any clients in we can't afford to put the heating on!) as well as a fleecy hoodie that covers me. Mine is red outside and white fleece inside and a child waved at me and called "Hello Santa" last week. 🤣
However my year 9 ds is still going to school in his shorts and t-shirt, he does sometimes put his jumper on. He'd probably happily add a balaclava though.

Actually not just about parents not following rules, but also about them thoughtlessly following the guidelines - that the government assures us makes socialising safer!

Of course it’s relevant, if your school isn’t one of the ones closing.

Arguing that all schools should be closed because some have to is like arguing everyone should be late for work because two people were in a traffic jam on a particular road. It makes no sense at all.

@CallmeAngelina

"School also stops children from mixing in an unregulated way"

How "regulated" do you imagine children are in schools? I mean, as far as possible Covid infection is concerned?

Hand washing, mask wearing, not mixing with other year bubbles, only in school not multiple locations, no exchange of bodily fluids. Crucially not out and about in general society mixing with lots of the elderly.

@Feministicon

Any SLT here that can tell me what to tell the kids when the room is freezing but they aren’t allowed to wear their coats? I understand the need for ventilation but why can’t be common sense be applied, I’ve asked a couple of students what has been said when they’ve questioned the policy but they’ve just been told they are the rules because they just are but we’re in a pandemic.

We've relaxed our uniform rules for now, and they can wear body warmers/fleeces if they like. If that is not allowed at your DC's school, what about thermals underneath? (But I don't have windows open all the time - I open them at regular intervals for 5-10 mins at a time to get a blast of fresh air going through, and then we close them and warm up a bit. They're open all break/lunch times).

But they are mixing st some point because school isn't 24/7....

Schools should close to stop the spread of the infection.

A week of closure before (and/or after Christmas) would save lives. Before Christmas you'd save family lives, after Christmas teachers lives.

A planned week of closure would also prevent lots of no notice two week isolation periods. Which in turn would be better for everyone.

Keeping control over the spread is vital. The governments policies seem directly at odds with this idea.

"Hand washing, mask wearing, not mixing with other year bubbles, only in school not multiple locations, no exchange of bodily fluids. Crucially not out and about in general society mixing with lots of the elderly."

You clearly have not been in a school recently.

School also stops children from mixing in an unregulated way

It is comments like this that really clarify how little a clue some people have of the reality in schools, particularly secondary schools.

Secondary teachers weren’t at all surprised when the infection rate in secondary kids dropped in half term, despite the reports of parties.

Of course it’s relevant, if your school isn’t one of the ones closing.

Let's also get rid of the notion that an open school is a fully functioning place of education. It isn't. Some students have had full days of cover where I am. They'd have been better off at home.

Schools should close to stop the spread of the infectio
If its needed to suppress the virus.

Not so everyone can have a jolly Christmas.........

Government decided about Christmas....

I’m afraid I can't agree with that, herc

Maybe it depends where you work.

@Feministicon

Any SLT here that can tell me what to tell the kids when the room is freezing but they aren’t allowed to wear their coats? I understand the need for ventilation but why can’t be common sense be applied, I’ve asked a couple of students what has been said when they’ve questioned the policy but they’ve just been told they are the rules because they just are but we’re in a pandemic.

The parents complained because all the teachers were wearing coats and the kids weren’t allowed to. Kids now allowed!

@Covidnomore

Schools should close to stop the spread of the infectio If its needed to suppress the virus.

Not so everyone can have a jolly Christmas.........

And not really when assessing balance of harm. Ie Whitty’s statement on it.

You can't agree that kids having full days of cover isn't education?

Some maths classes have had 9 weeks of cover. Not long term supply. A different person every lesson. That's not good for them either. But yes nothing to see here, these children are definitely being educated

@CallmeAngelina

"Hand washing, mask wearing, not mixing with other year bubbles, only in school not multiple locations, no exchange of bodily fluids. Crucially not out and about in general society mixing with lots of the elderly."

You clearly have not been in a school recently.

Depends on the school I guess, and whether it’s primary or secondary. Crucially they are not mixing with the elderly nearly as much as if grandparents were providing care or they’re out all day in general society

Crucially they are not mixing with the elderly nearly as much as if grandparents were providing care or they’re out all day in general society

Please tell me the bits of society where you spend hours a day in a room with 30+ people that are open right now?

(obvs schools don't count)

I'm not too stupid to realise that sending my kids to school until 17th means they're a risk to my parents. I am therefore not seeing my parents for Christmas. I prefer that to my kids being deprived of education yet more.

I can’t agree that they are better off at home.

I CAN agree that if a parent makes that decision, they should be entitled to make it, but I don’t think closing schools is in the best interests of anyone.

@Welcometonowhere

Of course it’s relevant, if your school isn’t one of the ones closing.

Arguing that all schools should be closed because some have to is like arguing everyone should be late for work because two people were in a traffic jam on a particular road. It makes no sense at all.

Except that I haven't argued that all schools should close. I'm not sure why you think I have.

And the debate in this instance is about parents whose children's school does close, last-minute, with no notice. This is happening right now, and will happen to many more, come January. That is no better than the predicament people will find themselves in IF schools switch to online learning for the last week of term. Other schools being open/closed is beside the point.