Government denial over schools issues will cause deaths this Christmas

[noblegiraffe]

I just can't get my head around how utterly crazy the government Christmas policy is.

Secondary school kids are the most infected subset of the population with it now estimated that more than 1 in 50 of them are positive. As they are children, most of them will never be tested as they either are asymptomatic, or will display different symptoms to the main three that are required to trigger a test (councils are overruling this in some parts of England and asking parents to use a more sensible list of symptoms).

Schools mostly break up on 18th December, 5 days before the Christmas relaxation period begins and people start taking advantage of this to mix with other households indoors, in poorly ventilated small rooms, which as scientists warn, is a terrible idea. twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1331931594400149506?s=21

Closing schools a week earlier (or moving online) would give 2 weeks out of school before Christmas day, which would reduce the infection rate in school children significantly (we saw a dip in the infection rate just in one week over half term) and make it safer for them to mix with other households, particularly if people took advantage of those two weeks to significantly reduce their contacts and other risks.

Some schools took it upon themselves to protect their own communities by changing the term dates to close a week earlier. The DfE has overruled this and forced them to stay open.
schoolsweek.co.uk/overruled-dfes-sweeping-coronavirus-powers-force-trust-into-early-christmas-holiday-u-turn/

Because of the tier system, if families don't get together at Christmas during the relaxation period, when their children pose a much higher risk, they will not be able to see their families properly for Christmas at all. Essentially Christmas is being funnelled into a time period which is insanely risky due to it coming shortly after children mixing freely in unsafe schools with significant numbers of undiscovered infections.

I know the DfE have been reading this board. I understand why you want schools open, but lying to people about the risks as you have is dangerous and immoral. Transparency is needed so that people can make their own informed risk assessments, not propaganda about 'safe schools' and 'saving Christmas'.

@Welcometonowhere

There are three primaries local to me.

Let’s say, come January, one has to close entirely because of staff needing to isolate.

One manages to stay open, but reception and year 3 bubbles burst.

The third stays open without any closures.

Surely that is better than closing all three. I’m not trying to be deliberately dense, but making life harder than it needs to be seems crazy to me!

It's better if your dc is in the non-closure group, as a general rule. Probably worse if you're not, and definitely not if your dc brings it home and gives it to you who is vulnerable and you end up in hospital or worse...

However if you look at the whole picture:

Which is better:
A planned fortnight. Children and teachers are given notice so child care can be planned and lessons can be planned in advance.
The school can put into plan for the children who are vulnerable so they can come in safely, but it effects all 3 schools equally.

Or schools with up to 25% (wasn't that the figure given this week for absences) missing, some staff also missing so relying on supply and TAs to teach lessons. Some of the children who are having to isolate are vulnerable but they can't ask them to come in anyway.

Obviously it isn't as clear cut as that.

Only one of mine has had any isolation.
He's currently at home with the rest of his year (and another year group) because half the year needed to isolate and there isn't enough staff to teach them. He's got his 5 lessons a day. Which includes 10 minute live lesson at the beginning (assuming the fire alarm doesn't go off ) then some set work and the teacher is available throughout the lesson to answer questions which can either be emailed privately or on the group chat (which was also used to debating who should teach the lesson during the fire alarm).
They have also invited in the children who are vulnerable or who have no/little access to technology to work at school.
It's not the best way of learning however it's better than earlier in the term when half his year was off isolating but not the rest. Because the teacher couldn't teach online and in school at the same time. So both really got not a lot of teaching, and what they did in that time has had to be gone over.

@noblegiraffe

A week closed definitely before or possibly after

Do you get, Marsha that when covid is in schools, it’s unlikely to be restricted to one week of isolation?

But if they close after due to staff absence as op put it it won’t be open.

The Christmas hit will take two weeks and pass.

So threats of well they’ll close due to staff absence isn’t that bad

Pp not op

I wouldn’t argue with that witchend if it had been given proper notice. As it stands, just a glance at the Scotsnet thread shows how difficult it is making life for people.

Anyway we’ll see. I’m pretty sure we got hit in March hence low numbers.

Since then I’ve read you’ll regret not doing pt etc but it’s been ok. If we go remote fine.

The Christmas hit will take two weeks and pass.

What will effectively mitigate the ‘Christmas hit’ and stop it spreading?

Not online but many wanted part time

Indeed and I did say 50% of time in my original post.

One thinks there are often cases of selective memory on here...........

Not closing before Christmas that’s for sure.

Hence remote for one week in secondary as better suggestion. Not sure about exam years.

Leave primary as is as online is poor

@Aragog

BungleandGeorge

The problem is is that it hits and before you know its happened and it all goes down. It's too late then.

Beginning of October we hadn't had a single case. Like many of this thread we were one of the 'its all going well, things seem to be working here.' then wham!

I was pretty ill and off for 7 weeks and in that time the number of people being affected and classes closing was like a rolling snowball!

We've had a couple of 'clear weeks' and then hit again this week - 1 positive, 1 class closed, 4 being tested this weekend.

I'm just really hoping I have immunity so come January I am okay when the inevitable happens across the community once more.

I hope you are well and settling back into work ok

I was wondering if you have tried to access an antibody test? As far as I know, the front page just hasn't been updated, but that teachers are included. I don't know if it might offer you some reassurance, for now?

www.gov.uk/register-coronavirus-antibody-test

Surely we will need at least 2 weeks after the last day of free for all socialising to allow for the infectious period to have passed?

@MrsDanvers123

Surely we will need at least 2 weeks after the last day of free for all socialising to allow for the infectious period to have passed?

I think they start a week after last day anyway? Haven’t checked though.

So would just need one more

@Welcometonowhere

I wouldn’t argue with that witchend if it had been given proper notice. As it stands, just a glance at the Scotsnet thread shows how difficult it is making life for people.

I agree proper notice would have been key.

Personally I would have planned in "firebreaks" to coincide with holidays to try and keep this down.
Potentially one at the start of September, when it was clear things were beginning to rise again (even if it took until October before the government admitted it)
So schools would have gone back 2 weeks late, then half term add a week, Christmas add a week, and February half term plan to add a week.

Those weeks would be full lockdown again, and children learning on line. One week half term, one week on line. If they had planned them in from the onset, then it could have been provided for. Schools could send home paper packs for younger children, got online lessons ready etc.

It's the u-turns and twists and sudden changes are causing the issues. If everyone had gone back knowing this was to be expected it would have meant people planned round it.
I think if this had been done it would not have eradicated infections in schools, it would not have stopped groups needing to isolate or individuals missing. However I suspect it would have brought infections lower and lead to overall fewer children missing lessons and less economic issues as shops etc could plan for 2 weeks closed in a way they can't plan for "lockdown for goodness knows how long".

And while extra funding should be forthcoming, schools do have insurance in place to deal with these situations. It isn’t unusual for long term sick, maternity and compassionate leave to come about.

Insurance doesn't cover isolating staff. Which is the majority of our absence at the moment. (And the three members of staff in hospital/out and recovering have finally triggered the long term sick clause).

Our school doesn't have insurance. Premiums way too high.

True, and that’s where the extra funding should be forthcoming. It is obviously unfair to require schools to remain open without providing them with money to enable even a basic level of staffing.

Witchend I partly agree. I say partly as I have to admit my classes, especially exam classes, have really fallen behind. Getting them through the content they need to know is hard work. My general feeling is they are better in than out.

But the main issue with school closures is the last minute nature of the proposals and that really is awfully unfair to parents. I don’t agree with everything the government have done but they were correct to prevent this, IMO.

If schools shut for many people childcare is grandparents, the very people we’re trying to protect? Work isn’t optional unlike Christmas dinners. there was nothing here over summer, if school shuts the school based childcare presumably will again and there aren’t other options a lot of places. School also stops children from mixing in an unregulated way, shops and restaurants/ cinemas etc are open many places, kids will all be out mixing with a much wider community. I do t think it’s as simple as saying an extra week off will prevent wider infections

"But the main issue with school closures is the last minute nature of the proposals and that really is awfully unfair to parents. I don’t agree with everything the government have done but they were correct to prevent this, IMO."

And you don't think that the closures/partial closures that we are heading for in January in the likely post-Christmas wave of infections will be last-minute for the parents concerned?

But the main issue with school closures is the last minute nature of the proposals

Yet every parent is in a constant state of anxiety waiting for the two week isolation call. How is this any different?!

School also stops children from mixing in an unregulated way

😂😂😂 you what now?

Where would all the childcare come from!

"School also stops children from mixing in an unregulated way"

How "regulated" do you imagine children are in schools? I mean, as far as possible Covid infection is concerned?

I’ve been through this angelina, tbh. If a school needs to close because of infection levels, that’s one thing. It doesn’t mean every single school should be closed. Let’s say one in three schools needs to close in January (a lot.) There will still be far more open.

@Parker231

Where would all the childcare come from!

Where does it come from now, when families get the phone call that their child needs to isolate for 2 weeks?

Any SLT here that can tell me what to tell the kids when the room is freezing but they aren’t allowed to wear their coats? I understand the need for ventilation but why can’t be common sense be applied, I’ve asked a couple of students what has been said when they’ve questioned the policy but they’ve just been told they are the rules because they just are but we’re in a pandemic.

I told them to wear their coats. I’m wearing mine! Considering adding a hat, too.