Government denial over schools issues will cause deaths this Christmas

[noblegiraffe]

I just can't get my head around how utterly crazy the government Christmas policy is.

Secondary school kids are the most infected subset of the population with it now estimated that more than 1 in 50 of them are positive. As they are children, most of them will never be tested as they either are asymptomatic, or will display different symptoms to the main three that are required to trigger a test (councils are overruling this in some parts of England and asking parents to use a more sensible list of symptoms).

Schools mostly break up on 18th December, 5 days before the Christmas relaxation period begins and people start taking advantage of this to mix with other households indoors, in poorly ventilated small rooms, which as scientists warn, is a terrible idea. twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1331931594400149506?s=21

Closing schools a week earlier (or moving online) would give 2 weeks out of school before Christmas day, which would reduce the infection rate in school children significantly (we saw a dip in the infection rate just in one week over half term) and make it safer for them to mix with other households, particularly if people took advantage of those two weeks to significantly reduce their contacts and other risks.

Some schools took it upon themselves to protect their own communities by changing the term dates to close a week earlier. The DfE has overruled this and forced them to stay open.
schoolsweek.co.uk/overruled-dfes-sweeping-coronavirus-powers-force-trust-into-early-christmas-holiday-u-turn/

Because of the tier system, if families don't get together at Christmas during the relaxation period, when their children pose a much higher risk, they will not be able to see their families properly for Christmas at all. Essentially Christmas is being funnelled into a time period which is insanely risky due to it coming shortly after children mixing freely in unsafe schools with significant numbers of undiscovered infections.

I know the DfE have been reading this board. I understand why you want schools open, but lying to people about the risks as you have is dangerous and immoral. Transparency is needed so that people can make their own informed risk assessments, not propaganda about 'safe schools' and 'saving Christmas'.

@Sandyplankton

My son is at primary in a bubble of 90 children. I don't quite understand how but there's only been one case in the school since September.

This is in a crowded, quite deprived part of London.

We’re SE London only one case in each school. Not deprived but residential or zone 2, so busy enough.

I do wonder how much March being hit harder here has had an effect.

Maybe general parents are less worried about children being in school because they don’t feel able to teach them themselves. Thus the benefits outweighs the risks?

Our school have already said they’re not considering closing because cases and isolation is at such low levels. The IT system is dire and there’s now the need to teach online. Some teachers are parents who find it difficult to teach from home. It’s easier for everyone to be in really

We’re SE London only one case in each school. Not deprived but residential or zone 2, so busy enough

Same!! I don't actually know anyone locally who has had it (yet).

And can parents and teachers please work together to find the least worst solution and outcome for everyone.

@StarryFire

The big issue in terms of closing schools is that if you set a precedent, I doubt they would reopen before April.

Personally I absolutely want schools to stay open. However, I could see why a one week early closure (except for exam groups) May be prudent.

The issue with this is that giving in to the unions on this would prevent schools reopening in the new year as unions will simply maintain the position that schools are unsafe.

I also think the lack of provision from schools during the original lockdown has made the government and parents extremely wary of closing them again. The unions have in many ways shot themselves in the foot with their opposition to online teaching, marking and one-to-one support.

The issue with this is that giving in to the unions on this would prevent schools reopening in the new year as unions will simply maintain the position that schools are unsafe.

But schools aren't actually safe for a lot of people, in terms of Covid. 2/3rd of our staff have now tested positive from Covid within a 5 week period. Every class has now had to close, another is currently closed for the second time. I caught Covid at school - I am CV and had no choice but to be in close contact with hundreds of children every week. Infant school so SDing isn't possible.

Aslo unions haven't campaigned or said they want schools closed. They, and many teaching staff simply want an acknowledgement that schools are not safe, that transmission does happen and it isn't just 'naught teachers having coffee in statff rooms'

I also think the lack of provision from schools during the original lockdown has made the government and parents extremely wary of closing them again.

Some schools may not have provided enough home provision. Many DID, my own included despite also having full bubbles in school from Easter and almost all staff working FT hours in school including over Easter and May holidays.

The Government have no reason to be concerned and wary - THEY were the ones who told schools to suspend the curriculum and tell parents and schools that they would be providing an online curriculum. Its only since the end of October that the Government actually changed the guidelines to say that it should be provided to reflect the current curriculum being taught. If the Government are generally concerned and wary about the lack of provision from some schools they need to be looking at themselves and their woeful advise.

The unions have in many ways shot themselves in the foot with their opposition to online teaching, marking and one-to-one support.

Online live lessons are not the only way to provide effective remote learning. In fact for many schools live online lessons are NOT appropriate at all, including my own. Fortunately our own parents and families haven't actually requested it and have said it isn't something they would want. It may be more appropriate for older years at secondary, but for most primaries it isn't, especially lower years.

FWIW many schools were offering remote learning (though not necessarily live online lessons), marking, feedback and one to one support from the start. This was actually going against the Government guidelines at the start but many schools did actually provide it.

Welcometonowhere

I am well aware that it is normal for private schools to finish early. I think it entirely appropriate to point out the difference for the state educated. I believe the unfairness is cantered more around the likely hood of the state educated to carry the virus to family gatherings which will result in the deaths of family members. That politicians have no vested interest in this is both relevant and unfair.

@Time2getSerious

And can parents and teachers please work together to find the least worst solution and outcome for everyone.

A lovely Utopian ideal.

But the government makes all the decisions. Parents and teachers 'working together' will make no difference to the political decisions being taken.

But one specific person shouldn’t really be appointing themselves as head of the topic

Oooh, is it me? I bet it’s me. Swearing and ranting and now giving myself a little crown. Tut.

My son is at primary in a bubble of 90 children. I don't quite understand how but there's only been one case in the school since September.

With children it can simply be the case of it not being known about. Children are not being tested often as they do not present with one of the three main testable symptoms.

The children at school who have tested positive have done so after T&T have sent tests to the families. They have been either asymptotic or had different symptoms - mainly headache, cold type symptoms and sickness. they would not normally have been picked up..

There you go decorating your own crown when a few of us would have helped with the colouring in. Several of our staff might have done it whilst they recovered from their Covid hospital stays.

With children it can simply be the case of it not being known about. Children are not being tested often as they do not present with one of the three main testable symptoms.

Totally but in that case you'd think they'd at least be spreading it to parents and teachers, and they haven't been.

Also I've had my son tested every time he's had cold type symptoms or gastro or a rash as well aware these are the key symptoms in children.

Negative each time.

@Sandyplankton

With children it can simply be the case of it not being known about. Children are not being tested often as they do not present with one of the three main testable symptoms.

Totally but in that case you'd think they'd at least be spreading it to parents and teachers, and they haven't been.

We actually had quite a few tested with symptoms but all negative.

Plus teacher absence hit years in March but not now.

No giraffe

Tbh, it’s really looking as if you want an argument. You aren’t going to get one.

I am pointing out that people getting irate because of a ‘calm down a bit’ is being rather precious. I am sure that you know when you post these threads some will disagree with you. I don’t think it’s particularly conducive to get defensive about that.

Shall we move on?

Quality the difference to me is simply that it is unfair to spring last minute changes on working families, when the situation doesn’t immediately call for it. It isn’t a monetary point, it’s simply recognising that this causes immediate social and economic problems for people.

I can obviously only speak for my son's school but none of his teachers have been off since September.

@Welcometonowhere, you said you were a teacher? Is that in a private school, by any chance?

I'd prefer schools to open a week later in January as we are like sitting ducks waiting for all the children to bring it back to school. People will do whatever they want over Christmas so I would like to know that we've had a bit of time for it to subside before being in a classroom.

I dont know what staff absence was like in March there as he only started in September.

I'd prefer schools to open a week later in January as we are like sitting ducks waiting for all the children to bring it back to school. People will do whatever they want over Christmas so I would like to know that we've had a bit of time for it to subside before being in a classroom.

I do agree and think they should close earlier for Christmas too.

Not a chance, angelina

I work in FE. We are going to remote learning for the final week of term to ensure if staff have to isolate during the festive period then it is not due to contact in work.

I do wonder how much March being hit harder here has had an effect.

Birmingham was hit equally hard back in March. Here we are again on our knees in local schools with complete and utter disruption, carnage in many schools. Scores of cases in schools.

Because this isn't replicated everwhere, most importantly London, this is being ignored while more children and staff catch Covid at school.

It's an absolute scandal and it feels like we are just being abandoned. I wish others could see just how abysmal it is with the multiple isolations and cases. My one Y10 son has spent more time out of school than in since Sept and now is health is impacted by catching Covid. He's also had 10 weeks without proper outdoor physical exercise (he normally does cross country).

All of the secondary schools around here have Covid problems. Two have closed until early December, and another has so many cases across the years, it will also likely close this week unless something changes.

What is this supposed to do? I've a primary aged child, and siblings of many secondary aged kids go to DS's school. So trying to have faith that my ECV husband won't be exposed to it is delusional. If Covid enters my child's school before the official term end, we are pulling him out.

?