Government denial over schools issues will cause deaths this Christmas

[noblegiraffe]

I just can't get my head around how utterly crazy the government Christmas policy is.

Secondary school kids are the most infected subset of the population with it now estimated that more than 1 in 50 of them are positive. As they are children, most of them will never be tested as they either are asymptomatic, or will display different symptoms to the main three that are required to trigger a test (councils are overruling this in some parts of England and asking parents to use a more sensible list of symptoms).

Schools mostly break up on 18th December, 5 days before the Christmas relaxation period begins and people start taking advantage of this to mix with other households indoors, in poorly ventilated small rooms, which as scientists warn, is a terrible idea. twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1331931594400149506?s=21

Closing schools a week earlier (or moving online) would give 2 weeks out of school before Christmas day, which would reduce the infection rate in school children significantly (we saw a dip in the infection rate just in one week over half term) and make it safer for them to mix with other households, particularly if people took advantage of those two weeks to significantly reduce their contacts and other risks.

Some schools took it upon themselves to protect their own communities by changing the term dates to close a week earlier. The DfE has overruled this and forced them to stay open.
schoolsweek.co.uk/overruled-dfes-sweeping-coronavirus-powers-force-trust-into-early-christmas-holiday-u-turn/

Because of the tier system, if families don't get together at Christmas during the relaxation period, when their children pose a much higher risk, they will not be able to see their families properly for Christmas at all. Essentially Christmas is being funnelled into a time period which is insanely risky due to it coming shortly after children mixing freely in unsafe schools with significant numbers of undiscovered infections.

I know the DfE have been reading this board. I understand why you want schools open, but lying to people about the risks as you have is dangerous and immoral. Transparency is needed so that people can make their own informed risk assessments, not propaganda about 'safe schools' and 'saving Christmas'.

If secondary was to move online, does every public have access to a laptop and WiFi? If not this has to be resolved before secondary schools move to any online schooling.

Many of the people who will mix households over Xmas will have been doing it already for months.

Yeah there's not many that are that desperate for money to cover all the vulnerable staff in schools.

Can someone point me in the direction of the posts by the DofE? What's the username so I can search them, or have I misunderstood their involvement with these threads?

@Parker231

Most secondaries are currently doing online learning to some of their pupils due to isolation and T&T.

The DfE promised laptops, dongles, and funding. Last I heard they'd provided approx 15% of what they promised. All those students are missing out if they are isolating right now.

I think we are aware of the risks, by now.

Thanks to what?

Interestingly, parents who are teachers are more worried about their child catching/spreading covid at school than parents who are not teachers suggesting that parents are less aware of the risks in schools than teachers.

Obviously I can decide not to see my family. I won’t actually because our elderly parents are all especially vulnerable because of factors other than their age.

The govt policy is to allow mixing though so people will - many of those parents or grandparents will believe this to be safe whereas many of us have been surrounded by multiple positive cases amount kids and staff and know it to be risky. We have two year groups closed in the advice of PHE and many positive staff.

First we have community spread and then it returns to school where we have more disruption. I think the Christmas policy is bonkers but to not allow anytime for children to isolate before seeing other family members is ludicrous. All those private school educated (MP children) will usually finish earlier around 14th ... gives them a decent block of isolation so actually the pupils and families left most vulnerable are the state school ones (and their teachers, of course).

I’m not so sure Herc

But either way, if a school needs to be closed because of unwell or isolating staff and cover cannot be internally or externally arranged, that’s one thing. That’s a sort of ‘act-of-God, cannot-be-helped’ situation. That is one thing.

It is another entirely to decide that because this might happen, schools should be closed. It’s there we disagree, I think.

Giraffe I am not sure the lack of concern is because of someone’s profession but to peoples circumstances. I’m quite laidback as I do not have anyone in my family who is elderly. Of course if I did, I wouldn’t be as lackadaisical.

If you have a teenager in school, are a healthy fifty something yourself, and your parents have already sadly passed away, there isn’t much to be concerned about.

@Welcometonowhere: "Giraffe, I do think you need to calm down a bit, tbh."

Really? Is that the best you can offer? Patronise a poster by implying they're being hysterical?
I think @noblegiraffe's posts, on this thread and elsewhere, are measured and informed and anything BUT hysterical.

But private schools always finish earlier. This isn’t different due to Covid.

It is springing it upon people at the eleventh hour that is unfair. It would be just as unfair for private schools to have done this. But they haven’t.

noble I don't think you can really make that assumption.

I am less worried that teachers about my child spreading Covid on school I would imagine.

Thats because I am in a position where I work from home. Dh works outside of home but only with a handful of others at a time.

So if we get Covid the most likely scenario is that its the kids that have brought it in. And they will have caught it in school.

Hopefully there would be minor symptoms, enough to make us aware and get a test.

I hope thatnif it comes into our household it never leaves.

I don’t think ‘fucking, fucking, fucking’ is particularly measured.

My ‘calm down a bit’ was trying to point this out. We disagree on this: that is OK. Swearing and ranting is not.

@Welcometonowhere: This is Mumsnet. Swearing is almost de rigeur. It perhaps might not be the right site for you.

Swearing and ranting is not.

This is Mumsnet, the one with the swearing. If you don’t like swearing, other, sparklier boards are available. Rants are also allowed.

Don’t try and tone police me, it’s not going to work.

@Welcometonowhere

I don’t think ‘fucking, fucking, fucking’ is particularly measured.

My ‘calm down a bit’ was trying to point this out. We disagree on this: that is OK. Swearing and ranting is not.

MN guidelines are fine with swearing-we are adults after all.

Maybe you need to calm down about that a little bit.

Pesky multigenerational household here. Glad schools are open as my son has mock exams next week. Except year 11 just closed as the cases are spreading, including son's friend, he's now shut in his bedroom and my parents are shut into a tiny annexe in the hope he doesn't infect them. But it's all fine. Schools are open and perfectly safe.

Given we have Johnson as PM, I think "fucking government" is appropriate in more ways than one

Hopefully there would be minor symptoms, enough to make us aware and get a test.

Good luck with that.

Like I said, teachers are more aware of what is going on in schools than parents. That photo of the crowded corridor on a different thread demonstrated that.

I thought your plan was to have all the vulnerable staff or staff who live with vulnerable people allowed to be at home. There is not enough supply in the country to cover that (let alone on top of the non vulnerable staff who are isolating due to contact tracing).

Schools aren't safe as they are. Supply costs £200 per day. Last week again we had 5 externals in for a week. That's £5k of budget gone in one swipe. No extra funding from the DfE.

@noblegiraffe
Thank you for this thread and all your others.
You are right.

Out head is desperately wanting to just close the school now. We have 4 whole year groups out isolating - 9, 10, 11 & 13. 7s and 8s have been out and are just due back. The virus is ripping through our school and community and we are one of the highest Covid areas in the country. He is worried about staff and pupils. Lots of staff off either Covid positive or having to SI.

He has been told he cannot. It's ridiculous. We're dropping like flies.

That photo of the crowded corridor on a different thread demonstrated that.

But that's not all schools. My kids are at primary school so its completely different set up.

My son is at primary in a bubble of 90 children. I don't quite understand how but there's only been one case in the school since September.

This is in a crowded, quite deprived part of London.

Many families will stay safely at home this Christmas, some will chance meeting up, and some will do as they please, regardless of regulations, right up till the start of Spring term.

DfE accept that masks are needed in class to reduce the spread and viral load in schools.

DfE give parents the right to choose online learning during pandemic without losing school places. Then those of us that can, will help reduce class sizes. And those that can’t, will still have schools open.

I’m not wound up, App. I’d just prefer not to have things deteriorate. I get it’s an issue people feel passionate about: that’s OK. But one specific person shouldn’t really be appointing themselves as head of the topic, with any criticism (and “calm down a bit” really is rather mild) being fervently shouted down by others. It isn’t good for the site as a whole, tbh.

To get back to topic - herc, no, my ‘plan’ is more that I think there needs to be some flexibility to allow for peoples individual circumstances. That’s not contentious, surely? And while extra funding should be forthcoming, schools do have insurance in place to deal with these situations. It isn’t unusual for long term sick, maternity and compassionate leave to come about.