Government denial over schools issues will cause deaths this Christmas

[noblegiraffe]

I just can't get my head around how utterly crazy the government Christmas policy is.

Secondary school kids are the most infected subset of the population with it now estimated that more than 1 in 50 of them are positive. As they are children, most of them will never be tested as they either are asymptomatic, or will display different symptoms to the main three that are required to trigger a test (councils are overruling this in some parts of England and asking parents to use a more sensible list of symptoms).

Schools mostly break up on 18th December, 5 days before the Christmas relaxation period begins and people start taking advantage of this to mix with other households indoors, in poorly ventilated small rooms, which as scientists warn, is a terrible idea. twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1331931594400149506?s=21

Closing schools a week earlier (or moving online) would give 2 weeks out of school before Christmas day, which would reduce the infection rate in school children significantly (we saw a dip in the infection rate just in one week over half term) and make it safer for them to mix with other households, particularly if people took advantage of those two weeks to significantly reduce their contacts and other risks.

Some schools took it upon themselves to protect their own communities by changing the term dates to close a week earlier. The DfE has overruled this and forced them to stay open.
schoolsweek.co.uk/overruled-dfes-sweeping-coronavirus-powers-force-trust-into-early-christmas-holiday-u-turn/

Because of the tier system, if families don't get together at Christmas during the relaxation period, when their children pose a much higher risk, they will not be able to see their families properly for Christmas at all. Essentially Christmas is being funnelled into a time period which is insanely risky due to it coming shortly after children mixing freely in unsafe schools with significant numbers of undiscovered infections.

I know the DfE have been reading this board. I understand why you want schools open, but lying to people about the risks as you have is dangerous and immoral. Transparency is needed so that people can make their own informed risk assessments, not propaganda about 'safe schools' and 'saving Christmas'.

At my local shops tonight the usual gang of school kids (about 15 of them) were hanging around outside. No masks, no distancing, foul mouths, swearing at anyone who said they should disperse and refusing to move out of peoples way making us weave through them.

Little shits like that are given priority over people who need to work and are risking losing their jobs.

Keep them in at weekends too. Shut the schools. This lot dont give a shit.

I'll call the police on them next time.

Because this isn't replicated everwhere, most importantly London,

But why is that do you think? I know people will say it is because London is richer but my son's school is in one of the worst hit boroughs with high levels of looked after children and children with EASL.

I’m going to work on the assumption you do want an argument.

I don’t know who “it” is meant to be.

“It” doesn’t work in a private school, and “it” doesn’t know what you suspected.

@Aragog
I’ll be very honest if I knew that 2/3 of the teachers had tested positive in 5 weeks id have no problems dealing with the inconvenience of school closing. If that meant no learning for a week then it wouldn’t be the end of the world. I do think most people are reasonable and don’t want teachers or their own families unwell. Clearly it indicates there’s a problem.
However when people suggest there’s a problem in your school when the vast majority of teachers are in and attendance is over 95% i think it doesn’t wash and people then kick back and don’t support school closures.
It sounds like you’ve had an awful time and yes we definitely need to do something about it

I think the general line of thought is London was hit hard in the first wave, while the north has been heavily impacted in the second.

Welxometonowhere I feel like we are having very different experiences of this pandemic. The (young) member of staff who has been left with lung damage will have her future impacted, the boys who lost three members of his family including his father will experience lasting damage not least economic. Sending high school children home a week early does not need to create chaos but it could allow for far fewer deaths. It should be obvious if most children are out of school then the ones that need to be in could be socially distanced. Death is often unfair and economically punitive. I don’t have to be that bothered by not working in a Covid secure workplace -
My family isn’t vulnerable and my parents are pragmatists. My situation doesn’t stop me from empathising with the many multi generational homes my learners live within. The community I teach is already economically punished and the lack of flexibility before Christmas will result in it experiencing both more deaths and more school disruption.

Birmingham was hit equally hard back in March. Here we are again on our knees in local schools with complete and utter disruption, carnage in many schools. Scores of cases in schools.

I was actually pretty shocked when in Brum recently. Loads of kids about during a school day and chin hammocks seemed to be the fashion.

Obv that was 1 large shop and not necessarily representative but its not something I have seen as much local to me. (Still West Midlands region)

However when people suggest there’s a problem in your school when the vast majority of teachers are in and attendance is over 95%

We were like that 2 weeks ago and we now have cases in 5 year groups, and among staff, with large groups isolating. Things can go downhill incredibly quickly.

@Sandyplankton

Because this isn't replicated everwhere, most importantly London,

But why is that do you think? I know people will say it is because London is richer but my son's school is in one of the worst hit boroughs with high levels of looked after children and children with EASL.

First wave happened before testing caught majority of cases

If testing had been around then we would have had much higher impact in schools

I’m sorry to hear that quality How awful for her and for her family.

It is incredibly difficult because for all of us, our situations vary dramatically. This is why flexibility should be key. The problem is that when schools are closed, this flexibility is removed. I am not suggesting that vulnerable teachers should be forced to work: that is wrong. Nonetheless, I also feel outright school closures are harmful.

For example, a few weeks ago there was a post on here I found quite upsetting, where a disabled woman was left in bed without any means to get food or drink, because carers couldn’t be found. These are the sorts of things that when you trace the line can be linked to school closures: school closes, mum has to take the week off, she can’t work, she is a carer - and ...

And she wouldn’t be paid for that week off either, so it isn’t just the disabled woman suffering, although of course she is the main concern.

It’s domino rows like that which just have to be taken into account. Of course, sometimes it just has to happen. But it should be a last resort, not a first.

@Sandyplankton

Because this isn't replicated everwhere, most importantly London,

But why is that do you think? I know people will say it is because London is richer but my son's school is in one of the worst hit boroughs with high levels of looked after children and children with EASL.

I genuinely don't know.

Another poster just said that London was hit harder than the North.
But the Midlands is a massive region, often forgotten in the North South debate.

At one point our NHS Trust had more deaths than anywhere else. Obviously we are the biggest local authority, but our figures were far higher than Manchester/Greater Manchester.

By this reasoning, Birmingham and Greater Birmingham schools should not be hit so hard this time.

@Sandyplankton

Because this isn't replicated everwhere, most importantly London,

But why is that do you think? I know people will say it is because London is richer but my son's school is in one of the worst hit boroughs with high levels of looked after children and children with EASL.

London schools get more funding than elsewhere in the country, even more so in deprived areas

Funding for what though? How does extra funding help WRT not spreading covid?

Bungles Birmingham gets a lot more funding for schools than my local council.........

Why does this myth that unions don't want to close schools persist?

Just 12 days ago, the largest teaching union in Scotland called for schools in some areas to move to blended / remote learning (ie school closures).

www.eis.org.uk/Coronavirus/Level4

Have they really changed their views in under two weeks without issuing a news release?

BungleandGeorge

The problem is is that it hits and before you know its happened and it all goes down. It's too late then.

Beginning of October we hadn't had a single case. Like many of this thread we were one of the 'its all going well, things seem to be working here.' then wham!

I was pretty ill and off for 7 weeks and in that time the number of people being affected and classes closing was like a rolling snowball!

We've had a couple of 'clear weeks' and then hit again this week - 1 positive, 1 class closed, 4 being tested this weekend.

I'm just really hoping I have immunity so come January I am okay when the inevitable happens across the community once more.

@Sandyplankton and @MarshaBradyo - before half term, our school had lots of tests coming back negative. In fact, zero positive cases. Now a rapidly increasing number of tests are coming back positive, from children in all year groups so far except Reception (where children have the same symptoms as those of children testing positive in higher years - personally, I suspect it’s harder to get an adequate sample the younger the child is, as it’s often siblings of reception children with the exact same symptoms in higher year groups who are testing positive). We now have an increasing number of staff testing positive, too. Funny that. It’s almost as if that’s how exponential growth in a school community works - smug complacency followed by what looks like a sudden explosion of cases, but has actually been seeding for some time as the viral load in every classroom goes up as the number of infected people sitting in the same classroom goes up, increasing the chance of symptoms, and none of it helped by siblings of isolating children continuing to come into school.

Giraffe, I do think you need to calm down a bit, tbh.
Indeed. This is getting very repetitive and is focused on only one aspect of a wider narrative of interconnecting parts.
Schools can’t close without interconnecting parts of the ecosystem collapsing -that is the nature of the society we live in. Do the only rational response is to make the most of the situation we are in to give the best outcomes for the children we are paid to teach.

@scottish83

Unfortunately the unions are gunning for schools to be closed.

As I’ve said, I personally would not be averse to an early closure at Christmas. But this would set a really dangerous precedent and they would be lucky to open again before Easter if the unions got their way.

[quote Walkaround]**@Sandyplankton* and @MarshaBradyo* - before half term, our school had lots of tests coming back negative. In fact, zero positive cases. Now a rapidly increasing number of tests are coming back positive, from children in all year groups so far except Reception (where children have the same symptoms as those of children testing positive in higher years - personally, I suspect it’s harder to get an adequate sample the younger the child is, as it’s often siblings of reception children with the exact same symptoms in higher year groups who are testing positive). We now have an increasing number of staff testing positive, too. Funny that. It’s almost as if that’s how exponential growth in a school community works - smug complacency followed by what looks like a sudden explosion of cases, but has actually been seeding for some time as the viral load in every classroom goes up as the number of infected people sitting in the same classroom goes up, increasing the chance of symptoms, and none of it helped by siblings of isolating children continuing to come into school.[/quote]
Maybe but I didn’t think we’d get to know with such low incidence and for that I’m very relieved. Just finishing mocks this week.

If we convert to online in secondary they can cope. Had v good practise days

Primary is shit but hey there’s always Oak 🙄. But primary not as much of an issue anyway.

Now

How does extra funding help WRT not spreading covid?

Bigger new classrooms, allowing for social distancing
Windows which open
More money for cleaning
More money for supplies such as screens / masks
More money for heating

@scottish83

Why does this myth that unions don't want to close schools persist?

Just 12 days ago, the largest teaching union in Scotland called for schools in some areas to move to blended / remote learning (ie school closures).

www.eis.org.uk/Coronavirus/Level4

Have they really changed their views in under two weeks without issuing a news release?

NEU did the close the schools campaign didn’t they? On Twitter etc

But Welcome - why would workers not be able to work because their high school aged children are home? The ones who can’t be left - SEN usually can still be distanced in school. Most high schools, shut for the majority a week before Christmas would keep more vulnerable people safe. Where I am it’s rife now, education is already absolutely fucked, we have increasing notifications of family deaths due to Covid and around 50% of each dept staff has tested positive despite our safety measures. Management have been fine - hmmm not often seen in classrooms. We are at last resort - there is less than 50% of our pupils in school. There are two staff (neither obviously vulnerable) with serious on going health issues after their infection and many families terrified. I have never spoken to so many parents so scared that their child attending school will lead to the death of their parents/grandparents. These aren’t houses where you can easily distance at home.