Is a change beginning to happen regarding schools?

[Covidfears]

I’ve been noticing more articles lately in the mainstream press about the difficulties in schools (which will come as no surprise to most people). There’s also been some research which has basically confirmed that schools are driving infections. So, along with it looking like this lockdown has been a waste of time (due to schools being kept open to continue the spread) and people in power calling for Hull schools to be closed do we think that schools will be closing early for Christmas?

Is there any chance that blended learning or rotas will be coming in after the Christmas holidays?

We are a vulnerable family with children in primary school and the risk that sending them every day with no safety measures poses to our family is causing me huge amounts of stress.

Catch up yet another farce. The money given for this comes with so many strings it's simply not affordable for schools. Can hardly call it additional funding if it cuts into their current funding.

So they are left with core hours, assuming they aren't SI. They are whizzing through what has been missed. Schools have no choice because of the unknowns of the exams. Great for those like mine who love the speed (he's wondering why it couldn't have been like this already, as he would have left). However, not so great for many others who will be left behind as a result.

No clubs here either. Hasn't been since September. They've had one assembly since then as well (that I know off, school missed due to SI and then CV)

I definitely think they should ... for all the people who are saying no and it’s bad for the kids and their mental health , I would say that having to keep sending kids home
Is also bad for them . My child is has had to isolate twice , and they have been petrified of catching it and passing it on to vulnerable family members . How is that good for their mental health ? Surely it’s better to switch to online learning for a month , help the cases
Come under control , so they can all have a good , longer stretch back at school after Xmas .

@canigooutyet We are doing video assemblies once a week in tutor time, which works quite well, but whole year groups are sharing canteen space at lunchtime (and it is not well ventilated). They are more distanced than they would be during assembly, though.

@Ilovemyhairbeingstroked I definitely think this is the flipside no-one is talking about. There are a lot of things relating to being in school at the moment which are damaging student mental health too.

I want schools kept open if at all possible, but we need much better measures in place to reduce the risks. I think schools are doing their very best in immensely challenging circumstances, so the initiative for this needs to come from central government - schools simply don't have the resources to go it alone.

We also need parents to act more responsibly and for kids to obey the rules. Far too many people are still socialising outside of school, falling to self isolate properly etc.

My friend is in the CEV category; two of her children are also vulnerable. Her daughter is now isolating after a close friend came to school with symptoms and subsequently tested positive. I find it hard to understand how people can be so utterly selfish.

It just isn't good enough to say that vulnerable people should simply pull their kids out of school. Those children are as entitled to an education as any others. We need to make schools safer, both for school staff (who are being expected to work in incredibly difficult, high risk conditions with very little protection in place) and for pupils with vulnerable people in their families. The government is falling terribly in this area and needs to take massive action to sort the situation out.

For those advocating online learning. What about the children who have no access to technology or even WiFi?
We recently got a computer in preparation for DD being sent home (not happened yet). We only have work laptops that she can’t use.
There has already been an issue of children trying to do some homework on phones which really isn’t adequate. More infer-structure needs to be in place.

Closures near me are very patchy. Some schools have been devastated and some have hardly had an issue.

In addition to their MH it will also be agonising for those with conditions like arthritis sitting in cold rooms all day.

Sew, schools know who has and hasn't got resources at home.
Allowing parents the choice gives those that can, keep them at home thus reducing the number of people in the classroom.

Schools are also aware of what parents would use it badly. They already have measures in place to get these types of pupils back into education.

The blanket policy only serves those who have someone who is at home and everyone is healthy.

We had to fill out a form for our school stating if we didnt have wifi or laptop access. Not sure if that meant paper was provided or they'd provide a laptop!

The week my daughters school shut before half term they had lessons everyday. Maybe half uploaded work to teams and half live lessons. I was impressed.

To TheEmoji and Danglingmod re immunity: SAGE have finally acknowledged that partial population immunity plays a role in this pandemic: assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/935238/potential-trajectories-covid-190next-6-months-s0848-291020.pdf

The whole “herd immunity” approach was abandoned fast when the government realised it was politically unpalatable. However that doesn’t change biological fact- all species typically develop a protective immune response post infection with a contagious pathogen!

At this stage the degree and duration of that immunity is unknown and it would take a long time to reach levels that would protect the whole population, for sure. But in a school population, with a high number of cases, I cannot see why you wouldn’t reach at least 10% which, according to the SAGE document, is enough to make a difference.

Well here I am, at home and I’m out of school because my child has just been sent home. Another Covid case and a third of their school is now closed. I had to leave work to pick them up immediately. There are also bubbles closed in my school. We are a low incidence T1 area in the SW apparently. I may not have Covid, but I’m now not in work. Something has to give.

@SansaSnark
They get around this by having all clubs/societies in lunch time. Their actual feeding time is 20 mins per day* and the rest of the 2 hr lunch break is free to do these or whatever. But... they can't be in classrooms. My son's best friend attends irl and he has special permission to stay in the classroom in lunchtime as the library is off limits and he was there all the time.
*Normal days they don't even get served in that time. I would like to observe lunch personnel doing their thing as they have to be on top massively to accommodate these timelines.

I'm not convinced that the current situation is better for children's mental health across the board.

Certainly some kids will be in school and thriving. Others are in school and stressed by the changes around them and the constant uncertainty about who might test positive and be sent home.

And a significant number of kids are at home and not allowed to leave the house, in some cases for the second or third time. How is that impacting their mental health?

At least in the first lockdown they could go for a walk.

But if there was herd immunity in a school then they would all carry it home to infect the wider community.

I mean if they all had Covid before getting herd immunity they would carry it home. Which mean the entire local community would be infected.

And this hasn’t happened.

TheSunIsStillShining
Students are having 2 hour lunch breaks? Or am I reading that wrong?

Kids coming from school to empty homes is the norm.
Now it's an issue?

Mine was latch-keyed at 9. I was still worried about him being alone for weeks at 13. It's not the same.

@WhoWants2Know

I'm not convinced that the current situation is better for children's mental health across the board.

Certainly some kids will be in school and thriving. Others are in school and stressed by the changes around them and the constant uncertainty about who might test positive and be sent home.

And a significant number of kids are at home and not allowed to leave the house, in some cases for the second or third time. How is that impacting their mental health?

At least in the first lockdown they could go for a walk.

It’s not and people are too selfish to realise that. We are T1, SW low of the low. No issues here, until a few weeks ago and children are out more than they are in. Staff are leaving at the drop of a hat to pick children up and look after them if they are SI. Then the closure of bubbles themselves. It’s a matter of time before this is in every school at the rate it’s spreading. These children are being locked up at home and not even allowed out for a walk.

Signed one extremely annoyed school employee who should be at work and can’t be because my child’s bubble burst, again. It’s the greater picture that people can’t see because they are short sighted and selfish.

In response to pp we do get told when case in school. all parents informed not just those who have to isolate.

How isn't it the same?
Unlike the school holidays, if they could go in partially they wouldn't be left all week during the day.
Having it planned would help to give them some stability and we all know the importance of this and routine.

Of course even with reduced, there would still be incidents of SI. However, risks would be reduced due to the decrease in contacts. We all know, the more people we are in contact with, the more the risk.

I also don't know where people are living that school kids are going out socialising after school. Locally, and friends I talk to whether working in school or parent themselves, kids are going home. Many of them know someone who can be badly affected by this whether it's in our out of school. They have nowhere to go

[quote TheSunIsStillShining]@SansaSnark
They get around this by having all clubs/societies in lunch time. Their actual feeding time is 20 mins per day* and the rest of the 2 hr lunch break is free to do these or whatever. But... they can't be in classrooms. My son's best friend attends irl and he has special permission to stay in the classroom in lunchtime as the library is off limits and he was there all the time.
*Normal days they don't even get served in that time. I would like to observe lunch personnel doing their thing as they have to be on top massively to accommodate these timelines.[/quote]
Ah, right, I see.

Our lunches are currently only 35 minutes, due to accommodating staggered lunches. First break has been extended to 35 minutes for some students as well, and others leave 10 minutes early at the end of the day (staggered finish).

Because of staggered lunches, and needing staff on duty in each bubble, there are very few staff free on any one particular lunchtime to try and run clubs.

Theoretically, we would be allowed, but the staff aren't available.

The only alternative to staggering lunches would be forcing students to eat outside, which in winter is pretty impractical.

@AlexaShutUp

I want schools kept open if at all possible, but we need much better measures in place to reduce the risks. I think schools are doing their very best in immensely challenging circumstances, so the initiative for this needs to come from central government - schools simply don't have the resources to go it alone.

We also need parents to act more responsibly and for kids to obey the rules. Far too many people are still socialising outside of school, falling to self isolate properly etc.

My friend is in the CEV category; two of her children are also vulnerable. Her daughter is now isolating after a close friend came to school with symptoms and subsequently tested positive. I find it hard to understand how people can be so utterly selfish.

It just isn't good enough to say that vulnerable people should simply pull their kids out of school. Those children are as entitled to an education as any others. We need to make schools safer, both for school staff (who are being expected to work in incredibly difficult, high risk conditions with very little protection in place) and for pupils with vulnerable people in their families. The government is falling terribly in this area and needs to take massive action to sort the situation out.

What measures, specifically, would you put in place?

Unless my teenage children have to self isolate, we are not told if there are cases in their bubble, or in the school, or if a teacher has it. I understand why they can't name the pupil / teacher, but I think all parents should be informed of new cases.

If one pupil has a positive diagnosis, about 10-15 kids are asked to self isolate, not the entire class, and not the bubble.

THey don't tell us because we don't have to tell the school if there is a positive case.

What measures, specifically, would you put in place?

I don't know, because I'm not an expert in preventing the spread of infectious diseases, but there are definitely things that could be implemented.

For example, I've seen that some schools in Thailand have plexiglass in between all of the pupil/teacher desks. That might be an option.

I understand that a lack of ventilation is an option, but my dd's school has many classrooms without windows so ventilation is very limited. Space is also very tight due to classrooms being very small. There must be masses of space around the country that is underutilised right now - community centres, conference facilities etc. Perhaps we need to be thinking creatively about how to utilise that space for schools. Not straightforward, I know, but not impossible either.

Compulsory mask wearing in class might not be popular, but I think it should be considered.

And there is no reason why secondary school pupils couldn't do blended learning if appropriate measures were put in place to support vulnerable children.

Yes, some measures would be difficult or expensive, but the education of the next generation is important and the situation we have at present is untenable, so something has to be done.

@AlexaShutUp

What measures, specifically, would you put in place?

I don't know, because I'm not an expert in preventing the spread of infectious diseases, but there are definitely things that could be implemented.

For example, I've seen that some schools in Thailand have plexiglass in between all of the pupil/teacher desks. That might be an option.

I understand that a lack of ventilation is an option, but my dd's school has many classrooms without windows so ventilation is very limited. Space is also very tight due to classrooms being very small. There must be masses of space around the country that is underutilised right now - community centres, conference facilities etc. Perhaps we need to be thinking creatively about how to utilise that space for schools. Not straightforward, I know, but not impossible either.

Compulsory mask wearing in class might not be popular, but I think it should be considered.

And there is no reason why secondary school pupils couldn't do blended learning if appropriate measures were put in place to support vulnerable children.

Yes, some measures would be difficult or expensive, but the education of the next generation is important and the situation we have at present is untenable, so something has to be done.

I totally agree with all of this, actually- particularly using other under utilised space. It wouldn't be an option for every school, but for some, especially in cities, creating extra space this way would be possible. We could then hopefully reduce class sizes to an extent as well to allow social distancing.

I don't think plexiglass would be possible with normal class sizes, but if we moved to blended learning, it would definitely be possible. Or at least some protection for the teacher, as we all know the 2m thing is impossible in a lot of classrooms.

I can't believe that compulsory mask wearing is less popular than the current situation!