Is a change beginning to happen regarding schools?

[Covidfears]

I’ve been noticing more articles lately in the mainstream press about the difficulties in schools (which will come as no surprise to most people). There’s also been some research which has basically confirmed that schools are driving infections. So, along with it looking like this lockdown has been a waste of time (due to schools being kept open to continue the spread) and people in power calling for Hull schools to be closed do we think that schools will be closing early for Christmas?

Is there any chance that blended learning or rotas will be coming in after the Christmas holidays?

We are a vulnerable family with children in primary school and the risk that sending them every day with no safety measures poses to our family is causing me huge amounts of stress.

Maybe schools should do blended learning or close in certain areas where needed? Our school has only had a case in year 9, then year 7 so far, with contacts sent home but not the whole year. My child in year 10 hasn't missed a day since September.

I’m sure they would like to close schools to get infection rates down but they know parents need to work and that children need schooling. Whatever they do it’s not going to be popular.

I totally echo Whyarewe's point about vulnerable students. They are the worst hit at the moment. I teach in an area which is classed as deprived. Many of our students cannot access technology so cant even work when at home isolating. Some of their parents are keeping them off to look after younger siblings who have been sent home because of a bubble case so that parents can go out to work in the "essential" but not well paid jobs. We also have a high proportion of BAME students, some of which live in households with vulnerable family members, and anecdotally many of them are off as well - I assume because of the risks highlighted in the media. This is causing a huge amount of strain on our pastoral team as they chase up absences and try to coordinate some sort of intervention, but are still dealing with all of the other issues they should be dealing with.

The government does not allow us to authorise any of these absences because according to them, all students should be in school.

Please can someone tell me how this is a normal, stable education?

The only real way to do it would be localised school closures. It’s not fair on children who might be in small, rural, low case areas to shut but if it’s a possible driver in high case areas then it makes sense to have a whole school two week breaker.

Keeping Y10/11 in school should be a priority in secondary as these are exam years.

@FippertyGibbett

No, we need to keep schools and colleges open particularly for those taking A levels and GCSE’s. Their education has been the worst affected by far. If you’re that concerned about yours, why don’t you keep them off ? Will school not support you in that ?

Schools aren't allowed to support parents in this. If they were, it would probably be a good step towards keeping schools open in some form.

The thing is, I know of Y11 students who are now on their third period of isolation since September. And yet there are some who have full attendance. I don't really see how we can run fair exams in this situation.

Regardless, OP is not talking about schools shutting completely- she is talking about blended learning and rotas. I am sure that, like in the summer, exam years would be given priority.

[quote HelenaJustina]@Covidfears I work in a primary school, to say that we are taking no safety measures is a bit insulting. We maintain bubbles, we don’t swap staff around, lunch now takes 2hrs so that the hall is cleaned thoroughly between settings, we have staggered drop off and pick up. We have cleaning scheduled which mean everywhere is cleaned at least twice a day during the day, and then again in the evening by the professional cleaning team. Staff wear masks in communal areas. we are allowing no parents into school... we are working so hard to keep everyone as safe as possible.

In our county only 32% of schools have had one or more confirmed cases. That’s a huge number of schools which have not had a single case. Closing all the schools would be unsettling and destabilising for most children, and absolutely disastrous for some.[/quote]
I totally agree. Schools have worked so so hard. Plus the teachers have been thrown to the wolves.

@Tumbleweed101

The only real way to do it would be localised school closures. It’s not fair on children who might be in small, rural, low case areas to shut but if it’s a possible driver in high case areas then it makes sense to have a whole school two week breaker.

Keeping Y10/11 in school should be a priority in secondary as these are exam years.

Localised school closures are already happening, just with no notice because there are too many teachers off.

This school is in a relatively rural, relatively low case area. I am pretty sure it would have been seen as "fine" two weeks ago, and now it's shut: www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/callington-community-college-closes-down-4703854

Localised school closures are already happening. To enforce it further would further entrench the gap in educational inequality, especially if GCSEs and A Levels go ahead as planned.

@bananaskinsnomnom

There should be some safety measures OP. Ours is operating very strict bubble systems (the lunch times and play times are spread and are a bit daft for some year groups but it keeps the bubbles separate). Only one bubble is allowed in each toilet (another fun one when you’re doing PE and one of them needs a wee - 10 mile hike back to the classroom). Staggered drop off and pick up. Our school is fine with teachers wearing masks / visors and a good chunk now are, and you have to wear one when entering a class that’s not your own or stepping into another bubble area (near enough impossible not to - the hall is in the year 3 and 4 area for example, the computer room is in the building with Year 6).

Obviously these don’t fully proof it but all schools will have things in place so I’m just a bit surprised by you saying there’s nothing in place - there has to be. We’ve had one bubble go out so far.

As a teacher I’ll handle it whichever way it goes - I’m not sure what to think now.
But if one more child comes in and says they’re going to Friends house for tea and is then dropped off and parent says “Oh Friends mum is picking them up” I could scream. The look on their face when I say I’m not allowed to let them take any other child home because WEARE IN LOCKDOWN AND HOUSEHOLDS SHOULDNT MIX.....cue puzzled expression on parents face....it’s so frustrating how many still don’t “get it”. Hang in there OP.

I've noticed this at school pick. I despair, I really do. People just can't stick to the rules.

We are following guidelines but can’t keep 2m away from children or staff due to classroom sizes. I feel at risk. It’s freezing with doors open. Not nice at all.

At my school years 3 4 5 and 6 have all had to isolate. We’ve also had teachers have to isolate due to their own kids settings having positive cases in years 1 and 2. I think the fact that cases are still so high during lockdown is finally helping to show the role of schools in this second wave. Whether we like it or not, we are going to have to do something to improve school safety if we actually want to get a handle on virus spread. Mumsnetters clutching their pearls saying schools should stay open because their kid’s school hasn’t had any cases misses the fact that in lots of places schools are on their knees.

I think we need to be more responsive to infection rates and need to be able to switch to home or blended learning much more quickly when virus rates are so high - returning to in-school learning as quickly as possible when infection rates are lower. Schools should still stay open for key worker and vulnerable children (including those with parents whose mental health is suffering) and parents unable to work due to childcare should be supported financially.

Test and tracing needs to be improved and we need to be stronger about mask wearing and reduced class sizes in schools when infection rates are high. Clinically vulnerable and EXC school staff should be working from home at the moment and families should not be facing fines for not wanting to send their children in when infection rates are at current levels - especially if they have health issues to think about. Just continuing to bury our heads in the sand about school safety is not going to work and will just prolong the spread and amount of time we gave restrictions.

Very good point about why exams won’t be fair this year and shouldn’t go ahead. People saying their kids haven’t had to isolate once and others saying their kids are on their third two week isolation . It just isn’t a fair playing field .

Some schools are implementing safety measures much better than others. Some schools really don't have the right tools, space and common sense where safety measures are concerned.
Those saying they've not had a single case lets be honest and remember that lots of people are asymtomatic and that even before covid lots of parents would still send in sick children so chances are there have been cases.
In my town at least 3 schools have already announced that they will be closing early for Christmas and they announced this weeks ago meaning parents can sort out alternative care should it be needed.
School life is far from normal for children and as the weather conditions change I'm sure that more children will be kept off.

I think they’ll stay open but smaller classes and blended learning would be safer and preferable IMO.

Fwiw - a few weeks ago I would have been one of those saying ‘no problems in my DC school ’. Now it’s (temporarily) closed due to an outbreak. It can happen very fast - we’re in a low case area supposedly but schools all around us have bubbles closing etc.

"Mumsnetters clutching their pearls saying schools should stay open because their kid’s school hasn’t had any cases misses the fact that in lots of places schools are on their knees.*

I don't think that's the case, it's that people who have zero cases and have had no bubbles having to isolate don't see why their schools should close at the moment. If any cases did rear their head then that would be different.

Those who think it's fine to send teenagers home for weeks because they don't need child care - how do you expect parents WFH to work with teenagers around the house all day?
I'm a social worker and I need quiet and privacy to have meetings and telephone calls, which I cannot do in the same room as my DS. It will be worse for me in January as I'm starting as a manager so won't even have visits out of the house that I currently schedule after school.
I don't have anywhere else suitable in the house to work and nor does he. It's untenable. My work isn't optional.

I I don't really get why a child who has been sat next to another child all day and played with them in the playground etc shouldnt then go home together after school.don't really get why a child who has been sat next to another child all day and played with them in the playground etc shouldnt then go home together after school.

Which is the problem round here. Parents not getting the logic and having children (from different school bubbles) round to play. The idea of the bubbles is to try and contain the virus. If your child is mixing out of school, then the likelihood is that other children are too therefore increasing the chance of coming into contact with the virus.

Lockdown is supposed to be reducing these contacts. If people want schools to remain open, children need to go from their school bubble to their home bubble. Likewise parents from their home bubble to work bubble to home again. It only works if we are all doing our bit.

I’m not sure what the answer is. Many of us need schools open in order to work but the virus will continue to spread if schools remain fully open. Maybe giving people the option to home school where possible could be the answer? Maybe closing high schools could be the answer though I know my kids would be devastated. Maybe a 4 week Christmas break could help? Who knows. What ever is decided there will be people that don’t agree with the actions taken, you can’t please everyone.

I think it's too late for meaningful change. Our senior leadership worked full time for the whole 6 week hols to get new systems in place. We've done a better job of controlling the virus than any high school I know of but we've still had 30+ confirmed cases and hundreds isolating.

We needed money, more staff and the scope to focus in- school teaching non-GCSE years 3 months ago.

If there was a 3 week break at Christmas and teachers got the extra week to plan part time learning for Y7-9 (along with more staff) then it would slow the spread a lot.

Sadly I don't think the government is capable of admitting it's mistakes in time. It will hope to provoke the unions into striking and blame them.

The change I have seen in the past two weeks is so many bubbles popping and staff and children off school isolating. Every single local school has at least two year bubbles at home.

@Lovemusic33 This is spot on. The gov have taken away the choice from parents with the threat of fines for non attendance so parents right now either tow the line or deregister. However there are lots of families who could support blended learning and schooling from home who do not want to deregister. I am one of those parents I can support my child at home and that will be happening in the near future but I will be subjected to fines.

When it gets that cold that it starts to affect her learning I will keep her home because that will be in my child's best interest. She's only 6 and has coped so far so well but she's suffered losses and I can see she's really starting to struggle.

Schools won’t close

And keep reading about Hull but Liverpool cases were higher at one point and ours didn’t close and we have worst hospitals nd death rate from covid in UK! All schools in Liverpool have been open throughout besides for bubble breaks

You need to get your MP’s in England to sort out the track and trace. I live on the border (Wales) and schools in Wales have excellent support from track and trace. 99% of contacts are traced (local council and health board). The school a few miles in England is in chaos with children and teachers off and no phone calls to parents tracing their contacts. The belief that private sector is better than public sector is literally destroying your children’s education.

The data, Sage advice, the media and parents pulling DC out early, along with schools closures and local leaders demands for part time rotas, yes schools will close. The government can not lead, will not act proactively, have not invested, regulated, or supported safe conditions in schools, now will be forced to trot along behind the masses.

Not quite Bumpinthenight. In our primary the year group is a bubble (are most primaries?) So its not mixing bubbles, its the same child with their friend in school as out of school. The children usually have friends from their own year group so its the same kids they've played all day with. Id understand if it were children from a different school/bubble and why clubs have closed. But that's not the case here.

Parents here wanting to take a friends child home (often for childcare) are fine at my childs school as long as mentioned in the morning.

I personally think we are looking at the wrong problem and we shouldnt have kids in schools as they are. Crowded indoor spaces, often with poor ventilation are high risk activities.