Is a change beginning to happen regarding schools?

[Covidfears]

I’ve been noticing more articles lately in the mainstream press about the difficulties in schools (which will come as no surprise to most people). There’s also been some research which has basically confirmed that schools are driving infections. So, along with it looking like this lockdown has been a waste of time (due to schools being kept open to continue the spread) and people in power calling for Hull schools to be closed do we think that schools will be closing early for Christmas?

Is there any chance that blended learning or rotas will be coming in after the Christmas holidays?

We are a vulnerable family with children in primary school and the risk that sending them every day with no safety measures poses to our family is causing me huge amounts of stress.

For some reason this year it seems that every child has childcare to go to whilst their parents worked. Kids, including primary age had been left home alone whilst the parent worked especially school holidays/weekends.
Kids coming from school to empty homes is the norm.
Now it's an issue?

It's well established that children who miss long periods of school fall behind. It's not because they are too ill to do the work, it's because the work never arrives.

When it comes to education you have 2 choices - full time school (unless you can convince them to do reduced timetable) or home ED,.

Childcare, what are you doing locally to emphasise the need for this? When these services come under the threat of closure what are you doing to help?

Yes I know its bloody difficult trying to juggle it all with no help. The first place I started looking was their class mates for play dates.

@Waxonwaxoff0

So don’t you think the government need to step in and do something. Just keeping them open is obviously not a good long term plan.

Open schools- jobs lost

Closed schools- jobs lost

The government needs to come up with a better plan than do nothing. This is what we should all be asking for. Because the status quo is terrible for everyone in the long run.

I reckon they were hoping that the unions were going to force school closures so they would have someone else to blame. I don’t see how this could be considered a successful or acceptable situation for any of those involved.

If I were you I would be pretty angry that the government would rather have you stuck without childcare in some sort of post code lottery than make any investment in making education safe and sustainable for all students.

So many of their classmates are being sent home, they feel it's not fair, why do they have to do the maths test and those at home don't have to do it? They are not working their hardest as they can be called to go home at any time. THere is no fun at school, no clubs, no band practice, no football after school. Lunchtime has been cut to half an hour so they don't have time to chill with their mates. They are constantly stressed about the new rules, one way system, masks, etc. They are scared of getting Covid as so many other kids at school have it.

I have so many issues with this statement. Just because kids are home, why are they not expected to do the maths test? They could easily do it on-line. If you are worried about being off school, you should be working extra hard when you are there. The school has decided no clubs, this is not acceptable, clubs and sport at school are allowed. There is no reason not to have clubs. There is nothing onerous about one way systems and masks. I feel sorry for your kids, I really do, but from this statement I would place the fault with the school, and how it is handling the situation.

Im worried about the spread in schools, colleges and universities, and think that those being open probably impacts case numbers far more than say a card or clothes shop that only permits 2 customers at a time.

Im currently at home with DS as he has had close contact with someone. As my job is affected by lockdown I am on pt furlough anyway but I get frustrated with the insinuation for some people that others want schools open "because they don't want the inconvenience" or because "they don't want to do home learning" when in fact, a lot of people rely on schools for childcare (rightly or wrongly) and will be unable to work if there are long term school closures again. I dn't think there is an easy choice.

If I were you I would be pretty angry that the government would rather have you stuck without childcare in some sort of post code lottery than make any investment in making education safe and sustainable for all students.

This. At the moment, education is a postcode lottery.

@Baaaahhhhh

So many of their classmates are being sent home, they feel it's not fair, why do they have to do the maths test and those at home don't have to do it? They are not working their hardest as they can be called to go home at any time. THere is no fun at school, no clubs, no band practice, no football after school. Lunchtime has been cut to half an hour so they don't have time to chill with their mates. They are constantly stressed about the new rules, one way system, masks, etc. They are scared of getting Covid as so many other kids at school have it.

I have so many issues with this statement. Just because kids are home, why are they not expected to do the maths test? They could easily do it on-line. If you are worried about being off school, you should be working extra hard when you are there. The school has decided no clubs, this is not acceptable, clubs and sport at school are allowed. There is no reason not to have clubs. There is nothing onerous about one way systems and masks. I feel sorry for your kids, I really do, but from this statement I would place the fault with the school, and how it is handling the situation.

DfE guidance is very clear that after school clubs are only allowed for childcare. At secondary, you can't really make the argument that they are. A school would be on very dodgy ground if a cluster was linked to e.g. an after school drama club, for example. I am sure there are secondary schools that are doing this, but they are breaking DfE rules.

We can't do lunch clubs, as staggered lunches mean our lunch break is shorter and staff have to do duties nearly every lunchtime. Having staggered lunches is the only way to get all year groups safely through the canteen.

Theoretically, we could run a lunch club if we could provide a seating plan for it- I do this for lunchtime revision once a week in the only lunch where I don't have a duty. I'm not sure how one provides a seating plan for e.g. Rugby club.

It's not that one way systems and masks are onerous as such, but constantly changing rules are very stressful for some children.

I think secondaries and colleges should move to online learning, as the spread is worse in them. But primaries need to remain open, with safety measures in place such as class bubbles, staggered break times/drop offs/pick ups etc. My son's school (he's in Year 3) has not had a single positive case since they went back in September - it would be massively unfair and disruptive to make them close, and children's mental health would suffer hugely. Not to mention the masses of parents who would then be unable to work and would lose their incomes.

@Baaaahhhhh

Schools have been advised not to run clubs. We can’t mix the bubbles and we have to do a full risk assessment for every out of class activity.

Most schools have 30 mins for lunch now, which isn’t long enough for the kids or staff to eat and do an activity. Many activities are banned under COVId secure guidelines.

So please do stop saying that schools are failing pupils. I have never, ever worked as hard as I have this year. The hours are horrific. The worry is constant and the systems are both complex and completely shit.

How not telling the school staff that are keeping your child’s school open by dint of massive amounts of hard work and personal sacrifice that they are failing by not offering a club in their 30min lunch break.

@Fizbosshoes

Im worried about the spread in schools, colleges and universities, and think that those being open probably impacts case numbers far more than say a card or clothes shop that only permits 2 customers at a time.

Im currently at home with DS as he has had close contact with someone. As my job is affected by lockdown I am on pt furlough anyway but I get frustrated with the insinuation for some people that others want schools open "because they don't want the inconvenience" or because "they don't want to do home learning" when in fact, a lot of people rely on schools for childcare (rightly or wrongly) and will be unable to work if there are long term school closures again. I dn't think there is an easy choice.

This doesn't apply to secondary schools, though- the vast majority of secondary school students don't need childcare.

People may be uncomfortable leaving some Y7s alone for 2 weeks at a time, but if it was blended learning for 1/2 days a week? I think most would be comfortable, bar SEN, and students with SEN needs could hopefully come in every day.

I don't think anyone is talking about a long term school closure like in lockdown 1, but looking at different ways of keeping schools at least partially open.

Yes I'd be ok with leaving my year 10 child at home, not so the one in primary.

statement. Just because kids are home, why are they not expected to do the maths test? They could easily do it on-line.

You really cannot see the issues there?
Kids in school someone there to prevent cheating.
At home it's a free for all.

If I was sitting exams, I know which option I would chose

@Fizbosshoes

Yes I'd be ok with leaving my year 10 child at home, not so the one in primary.

FWIW, I fully believe primary and secondary need different solutions.

I think if things were being better managed in secondary, it would probably help keep primaries open, and keep them from having to send so many bubbles home, which would help with childcare.

But even if primaries went to blended learning, I sort of think a regular 1 or 2 days a week of childcare (when crucially the child is not required to isolate) is easier to organise than 2 weeks, no notice the child can't leave the house?

But I do think it ought to be possible to keep primaries open as much as possible- we might have to accept this comes at the expense of keeping secondary schools fully open?

We would opt for partial tbh.

Schools aren't stupid. They know which pupils need support, who are vulnerable, who they would have to coax in because of abuse etc. They know the amount of input pupils need to be able to deliver this successfully. They know who does and doesn't have tech at home. All of this gets talked about regardless of their age. They know what parents are working even they are claiming FSM.

When I worked with children, they'd tell me all their parents secrets including an affair!! I didn't go around questioning them either. Bit of a shock, one minute doing blended learning, the next thing my mummies been kissing Dave, if I tell daddy I have to give my new toy back

SansaSnark. You do have my sympathies, you really do, I fully support teachers having safe environments in which to work. I think students and staff should wear masks, it's what they do in hospitals, so why the difference?

I suppose my issue is that there is so much difference between schools. And I am not just talking about state and private, but within state too.

A quick look at local twitter pages shows many schools are running sports clubs in particular, out of school hours, or at lunchtimes. Within bubbles, or year groups. It is obvious you don't need a seating plan for sports, you know who is there, and for how long, and it is outdoors. Lots of Hockey, Netball, Cross Country etc Singing and bands going on in bubbles too. Gymnastics also taking place, I use this as an example of indoor activity. So either all these schools are breaking the guidance, or is it rules, terminology makes a difference, or have done risk assessments and decided they are acceptable.

I’m in West Yorkshire, bubbles being sent home regularly here, both my dds have had to isolate. My nephew is in his third two week self isolation since September. It must be a nightmare being a teacher. Dds school have had to close the kitchens this week because there isn’t enough staff.

Wow Baaah. None of the schools near me are. The outside provision clubs and school clubs all shut. It's something thats worried me wrt kids health. Our secondary had hoped to start sports clubs after after term, in year groups, but second lockdown stopped that.

Is it a private school you're looking at?

And to be honest with the virus spreading and the closing of many year groups locally I am.not surprised they dont want to mix or keep kids more than they have to.

I was hoping something like the daily mile could come back just to get them moving more but its not happening. There's a huge focus on catching the kids up (mine didn't need to catch up... ) which is different to the summer yr 6 return to school. That was amazing. Half classes, lots of outdoor time, spaced. I'm sure even though it was so relaxed they learnt more. Having seen how great that was I can imagine blended learning with smaller classes working. I really had hoped for more outdoor exercise personally.

PineappleUpsideDownCake I looked at both. To be fair, I have noted that the state school has stopped all after school clubs for this lockdown, but was running them as normal from Sept to now. Private schools seem to be just carrying on......

I also notice that the state school has taken delivery of a UV robot automatic cleaner!!!! I'm blown away.

@Baaaahhhhh

SansaSnark. You do have my sympathies, you really do, I fully support teachers having safe environments in which to work. I think students and staff should wear masks, it's what they do in hospitals, so why the difference?

I suppose my issue is that there is so much difference between schools. And I am not just talking about state and private, but within state too.

A quick look at local twitter pages shows many schools are running sports clubs in particular, out of school hours, or at lunchtimes. Within bubbles, or year groups. It is obvious you don't need a seating plan for sports, you know who is there, and for how long, and it is outdoors. Lots of Hockey, Netball, Cross Country etc Singing and bands going on in bubbles too. Gymnastics also taking place, I use this as an example of indoor activity. So either all these schools are breaking the guidance, or is it rules, terminology makes a difference, or have done risk assessments and decided they are acceptable.

It is not obvious to my SLT, who are the ones who's neck will be on the line if we are found to be breaking guidance.

We were running after-school clubs up until lockdown, but they then decided in the face of new guidance that it was not allowed. Maybe they have been overcautious, but I can definitely understand why they have taken the decision.

My school has taken the view that we have to prioritise safety- we have been enforcing masks in corridors since September for example. We are in an area with low cases BUT we have also only had to send one group of students home, which is not the case for many other local secondaries. Our attendance is well above the national average at the moment, too.

If these clubs are running after school, and it is a secondary school, I do think they are breaking guidance actually- but the guidance is woolly enough that they will probably get away with it, and there seems to be no will to enforce the guidance in schools.

I don't know what the right answer is, but I am not going to blame SLT for erring on the side of caution and prioritising education above clubs BUT it does make school less of a pleasant experience for students.

@Baaaahhhhh Our secondary school are not running clubs. End of. Since the beginning of second lockdown. It is government guidelines, so schools that do are going against government guidelines.

Loads of secondary school kids at home are not joining in online lessons. Some because of tech reasons, some because they can't be asked.

Many kids at home self isolating won't be joining the mini tests. A teacher on his/her own in a classroom can't keep an eye on a class and on 10-15 kids joining in online.

In order for part time school to be acceptable for senior school DCs, it would also need to be determined what allowances would be made for this come exam time.

It's simply not fair that a year or at this stage two years worth of students receive a substandard education ( not blaming teachers just stating the fact) and then get lower grades as a result of it which could impact them for the rest of their lives.

Yes technically secondary school DCs can be alone for a day and technically dial into things themselves and follow work set. But let's not pretend that's ideal, and lets not blame teenagers if they don't work as hard or do as well as they would in a school environment with their peers, oh and let's not blame parents for trying to do the jobs they get paid for as well.

There is no ideal solution and it's very easy for DPs of primary school age DCs to propose online learning for seniors. FWIW the model DSs private school proposed prior to being told to drop distancing by SG had S1-S3 in full time - albeit with half time supervised study - and primaries in part time, probably because they realise just how critical those years are.

Our school are running clubs within the year group bubble of 300. Most societies don't have adult supervision so forget seating plan. The dfe guidance allows this.

Private donations also help schools a lot more than people realise. Over the years as well as the usual things you would expect, have also seen several ipads donated, video/audio recording equipment/software, pcs, macs and more.

Some supermarkets near to schools donate huge amounts of fresh fruit so that parents aren't having to find the money, never mind the school.

Things like this have been going on for a long time to prop up schools.

@rookiemere

In order for part time school to be acceptable for senior school DCs, it would also need to be determined what allowances would be made for this come exam time.

It's simply not fair that a year or at this stage two years worth of students receive a substandard education ( not blaming teachers just stating the fact) and then get lower grades as a result of it which could impact them for the rest of their lives.

Yes technically secondary school DCs can be alone for a day and technically dial into things themselves and follow work set. But let's not pretend that's ideal, and lets not blame teenagers if they don't work as hard or do as well as they would in a school environment with their peers, oh and let's not blame parents for trying to do the jobs they get paid for as well.

There is no ideal solution and it's very easy for DPs of primary school age DCs to propose online learning for seniors. FWIW the model DSs private school proposed prior to being told to drop distancing by SG had S1-S3 in full time - albeit with half time supervised study - and primaries in part time, probably because they realise just how critical those years are.

I think there need to be allowances made for exams regardless, to be honest.

Last term had a lot of disruption for Y10/12, and the current Y11/13 will have faced more disruption. How much time Y11 have had in school this term is a matter of total luck.

Blended learning is not ideal at all, but neither is repeatedly having to isolate without warning.

I don't think it's fair really that someone who has missed 6 weeks of school by Christmas has to sit the same exam as someone who has been able to have full attendance.

@TheSunIsStillShining

Our school are running clubs within the year group bubble of 300. Most societies don't have adult supervision so forget seating plan. The dfe guidance allows this.

Not if they are afterschool it doesn't- unless it is different for private schools?

If there is no seating plan, then my understanding is that the whole club will have to self isolate if there is one positive test (and the club lasts for more than 15 minutes).

I'm sure you can understand why some schools might not want the whole Y11 rugby team having to isolate on top of everything else.