Is a change beginning to happen regarding schools?

[Covidfears]

I’ve been noticing more articles lately in the mainstream press about the difficulties in schools (which will come as no surprise to most people). There’s also been some research which has basically confirmed that schools are driving infections. So, along with it looking like this lockdown has been a waste of time (due to schools being kept open to continue the spread) and people in power calling for Hull schools to be closed do we think that schools will be closing early for Christmas?

Is there any chance that blended learning or rotas will be coming in after the Christmas holidays?

We are a vulnerable family with children in primary school and the risk that sending them every day with no safety measures poses to our family is causing me huge amounts of stress.

@Barbie222 my child is 7 years old, in primary school so he can't be left home on his own.

You can see the anger brewing. No stamping your feet, goading, wanting your kids in all day so you can spend the time spewing hate on the internet will keep schools open. They are closing anyway, so tough shit.

Remote HSE inspection?

The schools I know that have had them have been thorough and in person but they've been primaries so no lesson changeover etc anyway.

[quote Waxonwaxoff0]@BefuddledPerson it's because parents have to work, or at least I do anyway. We can't all work from home unfortunately, I'm in manufacturing so I need to be in the factory and I need to be there 5 days a week, I'm a single parent so my income is necessary to pay the bills. School for half the week would be literally impossible for me to sort out. I know "school isn't childcare" but the Jobcentre doesn't see it that way and it's difficult when you have no other options, I don't even have parents who can help out as they both work full time themselves.[/quote]
It’s so stressful isn’t it? It’s why I just cannot get over how badly the government have handled the opening of schools which is causing many issues like your situation shows, which in turn is driving positive cases (as parents understandably are scared of losing pay/jobs so send in their children without testing but could well be positive)
This in turn is causing more lockdowns which in turn is affecting the economy and so many parents are losing their livelihoods anyway.

An absolute scandal that could have been avoided if they just hadn’t peddled the lies that children don’t catch it, spread it, schools are completely Covid safe and parents would be irresponsible if they tested their children without the big 3 symptoms.

Yes Chloe the government had literally 6 months to prepare for a safe reopening in September but they did nothing. It's absolutely ridiculous. I can't fault DS's school at all, they've been brilliant since he went back but there's only so much they can do.

[quote Waxonwaxoff0]@BefuddledPerson it's because parents have to work, or at least I do anyway. We can't all work from home unfortunately, I'm in manufacturing so I need to be in the factory and I need to be there 5 days a week, I'm a single parent so my income is necessary to pay the bills. School for half the week would be literally impossible for me to sort out. I know "school isn't childcare" but the Jobcentre doesn't see it that way and it's difficult when you have no other options, I don't even have parents who can help out as they both work full time themselves.[/quote]
I also work and I understand your issue.

But schools open full time is why the virus is spreading so much.

I therefore would favour part time school. Although it would be harder for me.

Secondaries need to be moved to home or blended learning now.

If the worst came to the worst I suppose I would have to request to be put on part time furlough. I don't think my boss or colleagues would be thrilled though. What a shit show from Boris.

We don't know the role of children of any age in transmission. Younger children are less likely to show symptoms (or at least the common symptoms) but I do know that many adults in primary schools are being infected. This includes adults within the same school who have had no contact with each other. There have also been parents infected at the same time.

Another issue with primary schools is staffing. In secondary schools you can scrape by for a bit by using whichever available teacher to cover a lesson, although who knows to what standard. In primary schools, there are rarely spare staff to cover and zilch money for supply cover.

My small primary school (in a previously tier 1 area) is currently closed because some staff have tested positive, others are isolating, others are shielding. We lost 5 members of our staff at the beginning of this lockdown because they received the letters saying they should not work. Another is off sick - recovering from Covid earlier in the term!

Personally though, I want to keep primaries open as much as possible as for me blended learning would be a complete nightmare. DH and I are both teachers. We would have to reduce our hours if our primary-aged DC were on blended learning. That's not a problem for me or him - we would manage financially, but it would certainly be a problem for our schools who would then be left with even fewer staff!

I don't think they should close schools as a a national policy.

Our area has low cases. None of my kids have had to SI yet.

Plus- once mass testing in schools is rolled out it'll be a massive game changer. Bubbles won't burst- if you're tested negative on the same day as a classmate is positive you won't have to SI. No more sending home whole classes or year groups.

Why is your school operating with no safety measures when ever other school has them esp primary? One of the little boys had to stand up yesterday for being naughty for trying to touch the teacher as she walked past, but the rest of the 5 year olds get it. Split drop and pick ups. No swapping seats. Windows open. Lots of hand washing etc. etc.
I'm not saying it's enough but I don't understand this thing that schools are doing NOTHING to protect staff and kids when they really are trying their best

Why is your school operating with no safety measures when ever other school has them esp primary?

What are safety measures you are referring to?
Especially for infant school age?

We are following all government and Lea guidelines and our risk assessments etc have to be signed off by the kea.

At this age they do not involve static seating plans for example.

Ours have static seating plans, no touching teachers, no touching each other, staggered drop of, pick up and lunch, segregated playground so no mixing with other bubbles. Extra hand washing. Teachers in masks at drop off and pick up, parents asked to wear masks at drop off and pick up. Office closed except in emergencies or my appointment. Parents dropping at gate and picking or at class door but in an organised socially distances way. Own pencils and stationary. Windows open. School not providing snacks.

@ChloeDecker

Thanks Waxonwaxoff0. This does sound sensible doesn’t it?

This list is currently what the unions are asking begging of the government (but no doubt many posters including those with UsForThem, will just assume unions only want schools closed, full stop)

It really suits Us4Them to make it an argument about schools open versus schools closed because then they can invoke the vulnerable kids needing to be in school (which is the only time they’ve ever given thought to those kids). I want schools open and I don’t want blended learning which then brings into focus their actual agenda which is lower safety standards in schools and less protection for teachers.

They try really hard to paint parents and teachers in opposition to each other when in fact they’re a tiny minority and the vast majority of parents want schools to be safe and are horrified that the government hasn’t even given schools basic funding for cleaning let alone any proper mitigation measures against an airborne virus.

Ours have static seating plans - we don't do this as it's not actually advised for infants in the whole, plus in reception it's simply not possible here

no touching teachers- well we try to telll them that but young children very often forget this, especially in infants and definitely in reception. Plus we have to help them physically at times - after accidents, if needing to get changed after a toilet mishap, to correct pencil grip, etc.

no touching each other 2 well again we have that rule but reality is that in the playground that doesn't happen. Plus SDing isn't in the guidelines for this age group

staggered drop of, pick up and lunch - we do this to extent within the constraints of our school layout. But it's not perfect. Classes within the year groups still have to mix in order to achieve this at break and playtime.

segregated playground so no mixing with other bubbles - we do this but our bubbles are three classes so 90 children

Extra hand washing - fi this several times a day plus anti bac

Teachers in masks at drop off and pick up, parents asked to wear masks at drop off and pick up. - been doing this since the start of week 2

Office closed except in emergencies or my appointment - done from the start and no parents in school. Office staff have a playground 'station' in a morning to deal with any issues abd wear masks and visits at this time, plus SDing.

Parents dropping at gate and picking or at class door but in an organised socially distances way. - can't do at gate due to very busy road and narrow pavement so have to been in playground. No parents coming in school.

Own pencils and stationary - all children in key stage 1 have been given their own pencil case and books etc.

Windows open - done this but in some classrooms this is limited due to the Victorian practise of having small opening windows that only open a small amount, and are high up on the wall. We are wearing thermals to combat the cold and encouraging children to wear layers.

School not providing snacks - we have no choice over this; KS1 are legally entitled to them and due to community factors we can't deprive the children of this.

Not on your list but there is no mixing of staff in close contact. Bubble staff share different parts of school for lunch/coffee but eat at least 2m apart and many in classrooms in their own. Staff meetings are done by video call separately. Inset day is being done remotely. Parents evenings and prospective parent tours are being done remotely. Etc.

So yes, following the so called guidelines.
It went oh so well in September.
Covid got in school mid October.

Despite the rules being followed, despite the school being classed and signed off as 'Covid secure' and despite me being extra careful due to being CV - I caught Covid and almost certainly caught it from school, most likely (based on track and trace and hospital doctors) from a symptom free child.

Several teachers and several parents caught Covid in the following month, despite following the rules and despite not being in close contact with one another. It's unlikely to be down to coincidence.

Just popping on this thread to say we were informed that we will likely start vaccinations in my London nhs trust 1 Dec. Hopefully teachers will prioritised too (plus others of course..).

Schools aren’t childcare, they are there to educate.

I know that, you know that but somebody needs to tell the government who seem to think that funding state schools adequately is optional. I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that the government don't consider it desirable to fund state education properly as it's only childcare for the masses and their contempories can afford private school and so they keep going because they know that the power will stay with them if the state education system is sufficiently ill funded that the advantages are greatest for the rich in private schools who will continue to dominate political and industrial leadership.

The 'flaw' in their plan is that there are thousands of dedicated teachers up and down the country who are doing a sterling job to mitigate the disadvantages and many, many pupils who are working extremely hard with the support of parents who value education. Credit to them.

schools aren't childcare, they are there to educate

School is the foundation of childcare though isn't it? What other child care provider is there for school aged children other than a Nanny or Au pair that would be completely out of the question for most families?
The job centre make benefit claimants switch to JSA as soon as their child reaches school age as supposedly they can now work when the children are at school. So yes school has a child care added benefit it enables millions to actually go to work.

They are closing anyway, so tough shit.

Are you privvy to some information that the rest of us don't know? Are you Gav's right hand man or Mystic Meg?

You think and predict they are closing but you don't know this as fact its purely just your speculation

@Aragog

Ours have static seating plans - we don't do this as it's not actually advised for infants in the whole, plus in reception it's simply not possible here

no touching teachers- well we try to telll them that but young children very often forget this, especially in infants and definitely in reception. Plus we have to help them physically at times - after accidents, if needing to get changed after a toilet mishap, to correct pencil grip, etc.

no touching each other 2 well again we have that rule but reality is that in the playground that doesn't happen. Plus SDing isn't in the guidelines for this age group

staggered drop of, pick up and lunch - we do this to extent within the constraints of our school layout. But it's not perfect. Classes within the year groups still have to mix in order to achieve this at break and playtime.

segregated playground so no mixing with other bubbles - we do this but our bubbles are three classes so 90 children

Extra hand washing - fi this several times a day plus anti bac

Teachers in masks at drop off and pick up, parents asked to wear masks at drop off and pick up. - been doing this since the start of week 2

Office closed except in emergencies or my appointment - done from the start and no parents in school. Office staff have a playground 'station' in a morning to deal with any issues abd wear masks and visits at this time, plus SDing.

Parents dropping at gate and picking or at class door but in an organised socially distances way. - can't do at gate due to very busy road and narrow pavement so have to been in playground. No parents coming in school.

Own pencils and stationary - all children in key stage 1 have been given their own pencil case and books etc.

Windows open - done this but in some classrooms this is limited due to the Victorian practise of having small opening windows that only open a small amount, and are high up on the wall. We are wearing thermals to combat the cold and encouraging children to wear layers.

School not providing snacks - we have no choice over this; KS1 are legally entitled to them and due to community factors we can't deprive the children of this.

Not on your list but there is no mixing of staff in close contact. Bubble staff share different parts of school for lunch/coffee but eat at least 2m apart and many in classrooms in their own. Staff meetings are done by video call separately. Inset day is being done remotely. Parents evenings and prospective parent tours are being done remotely. Etc.

So yes, following the so called guidelines.
It went oh so well in September.
Covid got in school mid October.

Despite the rules being followed, despite the school being classed and signed off as 'Covid secure' and despite me being extra careful due to being CV - I caught Covid and almost certainly caught it from school, most likely (based on track and trace and hospital doctors) from a symptom free child.

Several teachers and several parents caught Covid in the following month, despite following the rules and despite not being in close contact with one another. It's unlikely to be down to coincidence.

This is exactly the same as my school. Lots of things we are doing but there's no way we're 'covid safe'

DD's primary schools had static seating, in pairs, facing front, from year 3. Is it that unusual?

Imagine all the free time people will have once arguing about schools isn’t relevant anymore 🤣

@3littlewords

They are closing anyway, so tough shit.

Are you privvy to some information that the rest of us don't know? Are you Gav's right hand man or Mystic Meg?

You think and predict they are closing but you don't know this as fact its purely just your speculation

I think what was meant by that statement is that there are schools currently closed already, which they are (lots of links as evidence posted on this thread and others)

@Baaaahhhhh

DD's primary schools had static seating, in pairs, facing front, from year 3. Is it that unusual?

That's our year 1 class