Is a change beginning to happen regarding schools?

[Covidfears]

I’ve been noticing more articles lately in the mainstream press about the difficulties in schools (which will come as no surprise to most people). There’s also been some research which has basically confirmed that schools are driving infections. So, along with it looking like this lockdown has been a waste of time (due to schools being kept open to continue the spread) and people in power calling for Hull schools to be closed do we think that schools will be closing early for Christmas?

Is there any chance that blended learning or rotas will be coming in after the Christmas holidays?

We are a vulnerable family with children in primary school and the risk that sending them every day with no safety measures poses to our family is causing me huge amounts of stress.

Also, I'm just stating the Mumsnet rules. Take it up with MNHQ if you don't like them.

Personal attacks = not allowed
General derogatory comments about a generalised group like 'the government' or 'teachers' or 'campaign groups' are allowed.

Who let Aladdin out of the lamp?!

Where's the personal insult? I didn't say you were 'vile'.

I just thought it was funny I'd been mistaken for a teacher.

Oh for the luxury of being able to describe a campaign group who actively want a less safe working environment for a large number of workers as a ‘disagreement’.

I definitely and absolutely do not want to work in the unsafe working environment of a school.

I think teachers are amazing for continuing to go in and not strike given they don't even have the basic protections afforded to shop workers, and all other workers really.

It just shows that they're putting the kids before their own health and sanity. I mean, I knew they were doing that anyway really, what with all the underfunding and having to pay for pens and stuff out of their own pockets.

But I do wish they'd think of themselves a bit more because without them our children won't get an education longer term. We need teachers to stay healthy and sane. For our children's sake.

(and I know it's not simple and many don't have a choice - they have bills to pay, but still....)

Is it time to rethink the school year? More holiday over autumn/winter, less over spring/summer and generally more spread out?

Thanks Jk. I suspect it’s going to come to a head soon anyway.

I’m not a teacher, but I know a few.
You do know teachers can easily go off with “stress”. Off on full pay for 6 months no one can can deny them this, however the vast majority of teachers care about the children regardless of what the parents of some of the children feel about them and their profession. They take their responsibilities seriously and go above and beyond for other people’s kids. I think that speaks volumes about them.
It’s not easy recruiting good and experienced teachers at the best of times. If they start to leave who will educate your kids then. Kids can still attend school, but won’t achieve anywhere near the grades they should

Wow when doctors and nurses said they needed safer working conditions the public was behind them. All the clapping etc (but not nec corresponding pay or safety implemented). Can you imagine a group campaigning for worse conditions for them!? (That would be batshit crazy)

I am in awe of nobelgiraffe and her steadfast commitment to keep engaging on these threads. So sorry about the odd one or two who come and insult you.. It is so tough for teachers right now but of course they aren't portraying that to the kids/parents.

I am amazed at the actual damage this current set up is causing to health in many cases, and to childrens education (is it because many decision makers have kids socially distancing in private schools with tons of space and small classes!? I was amazed that Hull wasn't allowed to close schools despite begging. But that's not down south is it? So many "Im all right Jack" posters who can't see what is happening in schools elsewhere.

It seems obvious to make other schools safer before getting to Hull proportions. I imagine if I was still teaching Id have left if I was in Hull. Or as a parent I'd pull my child out. Howevrr when youre in it its almost like the boiled frog analogy. Each time irs just one more case or one more additional piece of work.

I want schools open. I'm not part of Us 4 Them and I'd have no problem with making schools safer but I can't see any way other than blended learning which I don't want for DS and would be impossible for me to navigate. What do teachers think? Masks for children? I'd be happy for DS to wear one.

Teachers don’t want schools closed either and most are not part of UsForThem.
noblegiraffe and lots of other teachers have said over frequent threads what other measures could be put in place to make schools safer so more can physically be in school.

Unless the government (and journalists) start acknowledging the truth, it’s just going to get worse, as we have been seeing this week, not better and that includes those whose schools currently seem fine.

At the very least, MPs need to:

ministers to:

1. Demonstrate that they are following the scientific evidence and advice.
2. Strengthen the guidance to schools and colleges on ensuring COVID-safe and COVID-secure working practices.
3. Secure the updating and publication of health and safety risk assessments and equality impact assessments by school and college employers.
4. Publish weekly data on positive cases of COVID-19 infections of school/college staff and pupils by local government area.
5. Ramp up inspection and enforcement measures in schools and colleges, including more comprehensive use of spot checks and visits by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE).
6. Take swift action to protect public health in the event of an outbreak.
7. Protect vulnerable teachers and support staff and pupils.
8. Strengthen the guidance to insist on effective social distancing in schools/colleges.
9. Provide significant additional financial support for schools and colleges urgently to ensure the safety of staff and pupils, including extra funding for cleaning, personal protective equipment (PPE) and supply teachers.

That all sounds sensible. More money should definitely be poured into schools. I wish we had a decent government that would do these things.

Several of your points appear to be putting the blame on to schools, though, ChloeDecker.

It is not possible for it to be safe in schools and follow the guidelines. The guidelines are actively making an unsafe place to work or learn. The government has mandated we work and learn in unsafe spaces. All the reminders and inspections in the world won't help. I will never forgive this government.

Children and parents are being let down and lied to and put in harm's way, too, don't forget. This is not just about the staff.

Thanks Waxonwaxoff0. This does sound sensible doesn’t it?

This list is currently what the unions are asking begging of the government (but no doubt many posters including those with UsForThem, will just assume unions only want schools closed, full stop)

@PineappleUpsideDownCake. There is significant covid disruption to schools in some leafy parts of the south. They just get less attention as the overall numbers in the area are lower than university cities.

I agree that more should be done to reduce transmission in secondary schools. However the most important measure would be for families to exercise common sense and avoid socialising With other households indoors and then fewer cases will come into schools in the first place.

Several of your points appear to be putting the blame on to schools, though, ChloeDecker.

Not really. If the guidance is to insist on social distancing in schools and this is not physically possible (definitely not schools fault and nowhere do I say it is) then this will be highlighted as a huge issue that the government should not ignore.

By not insisting on social distancing by the gov in official guidance, for example, schools currently do not have a voice in saying what does not work (and have no recourse when parents sue them-thanks UsForThem)

8. Strengthen the guidance to insist on effective social distancing in schools/colleges.

This means half size classes, so rota school. I'm in favour of that, always was, but most parents get arsey at the suggestion.

Unfortunately most parents prefer to risk higher transmission imo, if you suggest any reduction in school hours they kick off.

Ah, okay. I get you. I just thought that an HSE inspection would go "yep, you're following the guidelines, you're fine," when the guidelines are bollocks. So, not very useful.

@Danglingmod

Ah, okay. I get you. I just thought that an HSE inspection would go "yep, you're following the guidelines, you're fine," when the guidelines are bollocks. So, not very useful.

I don’t actually think HSE have been that useful so far as they came very early in the school year. We had just one inspector in for 2 hours in a site spanning 6 large buildings yet only stayed in the Heads office.

I think HSE need to properly go into schools right now to get a true picture. Rather than just ‘oh, you have centralised seating plans? Jolly good!’

@BefuddledPerson it's because parents have to work, or at least I do anyway. We can't all work from home unfortunately, I'm in manufacturing so I need to be in the factory and I need to be there 5 days a week, I'm a single parent so my income is necessary to pay the bills. School for half the week would be literally impossible for me to sort out. I know "school isn't childcare" but the Jobcentre doesn't see it that way and it's difficult when you have no other options, I don't even have parents who can help out as they both work full time themselves.

@Waxonwaxoff0 is your child in secondary? Do they have additional needs? If not, is there a reason why they can't work while you do? This is already the case for many, many secondary children, except it's the whole week, twice, then rinse and repeat.

Yep, I think I said this previously on the thread but we had a remote HSE inspection. No doubt they were told we were all distancing and all classrooms are well ventilated. Clearly this isn't the case.

BTW, the inspector didn't come into school as it is too unsafe during lockdown.

They need to come and stand in the main corridor after lesson change over and say whether it is safe then

musical : are your DCs made up or something? Earlier in the thread, you admitted that your year 11 DC has had , I believe , two bouts of two week SI (with online learning). Your most recent post says that not one of them has had to SI. You can't change your facts to suit your line of argument.