Secondary schools are totally stuffed, WELL-RESPECTED SCIENTISTS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

I don't normally get asked for an encore, more usually 'urgh, not another bloody thread', but per a request we have a follow-up to the resoundingly popular:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4078722-Secondary-schools-are-fucked-BOFFINS-ADMIT

Feedback has been received and acted upon re the title so hopefully that will temper the urge to complain.

Quick round-up of where we were at:

1. the infection rate is now highest in secondary school pupils in Y7-11, higher than uni students and sixth formers. They're not catching it at the pub...

2. The government/ONS put out misleading figures to suggest that teachers weren't at higher risk than NHS frontline workers, where actually looking at the data, they may well be. They fudged this by calling the largest group of teachers, who are at higher risk than frontline NHS staff 'teachers of an unknown type' and pretended they were irrelevant.

3. The DfE have changed the format of their attendance statistics report to remove the reference to how many hundreds of thousands of kids are currently isolating due to exposure to covid at school.

4. Boffins are cool

New info: The Guardian reports that teachers are being instructed to ignore app notifications to self-isolate by the school helpline and this might be a bad thing. They can't help themselves though, and have a lovely photo of a socially distanced classroom of lies at the top of the story.

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/nov/16/union-says-teachers-in-england-being-told-to-pause-covid-app-in-school

@ChloeCrocodile
That seems to be plausible answer. Thanks :)
And sorry for slightly derail the secondary thread.

Just found this on my local news.

26 out of 28 secondaries affected
84/141 primaries

And in percentages

92% of secondaries affected
59% of primaries.

I’m crap at Maths, but that’s nowhere near 8 or 13%🙄

On Thursday 5 November, approximately 16% of state-funded schools reported that they had one or more pupils self-isolating who had been asked to do so due to potential contact with a case of coronavirus inside the school (compared to 21% of all state-funded schools on 15 October). This equates to 38% of state-funded secondaries and 11% of state-funded primaries. Note that the vast majority of these schools remain open to most pupils.

This is where the 62% figure is coming from, I think. So it does not capture all pupils missing education.

Which I do accept- but to have nearly 40% of schools with students out self isolating is really pretty high.

Most groups asked to self-isolate are relatively small, the average (median) was approximately 12 to 13% of the total number on roll in state-funded primaries and 3 to 4% in state-funded secondaries.

Someone mentioned this indicating things may be worse in primaries, but it's worth bearing in mind that primaries tend to have much smaller school rolls. Around here a lot of primaries are one form entry, so roughly 180 students- that's equivalent to one year group at the secondary!

Approximately 89% of pupils on roll in state-funded schools were in attendance on 5 November, similar to 15 October.

For a huge number of schools the 5th November was the first day back after half term. Of course there were fewer pupils isolating - most weren't in school for the previous 9 days! That is some serious cherry-picking of data!

Sorry, should have checked - 5th of November was a thursday. Ignore my previous post.

Just lost our year 11s for the 4th time today.

HOD suggested school with more isolations may have lower exam grade boundaries... she seems quite confident, I can’t find that info any where?

www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/primary-school-sends-180-children-4695395?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=exchange

Another school that would have been described as "fine" last week.

@OverTheRainbow88

Just lost our year 11s for the 4th time today.

HOD suggested school with more isolations may have lower exam grade boundaries... she seems quite confident, I can’t find that info any where?

I'm pretty confident she is making that up if you're in England?

That's totally rubbish for your Y11s, though.

@OverTheRainbow88

There is no need for the entirety of a year group to isolate following one positive test and this goes directly against PHE guidance.

A contact tracing process should be carried out and only close contacts need to isolate.

[quote HakeCod]**@OverTheRainbow88

There is no need for the entirety of a year group to isolate following one positive test and this goes directly against PHE guidance.

A contact tracing process should be carried out and only close contacts need to isolate.[/quote]
Where does @OverTheRainbow88 say that it's down to just one positive test?

Some schools send home whole year groups as a precaution whilst they identify contacts. This is approved by PHE, btw. Where do you suggest the kids wait whilst this is carried out?

When there are multiple cases in the year group in a short space of time, with no clear out of school source, sending home the whole year group is still advised anyway.

Also, the practice of only isolating close contacts is probably what is leading to Covid being endemic in some schools.

Dd's Sixth Form in Surrey has shut due to an outbreak of several positive cases. The school specifically said they were advised to do this by the local health protection team. They didn't just decide to do it themselves. Looking at the figures for Surrey it's not surprising there would be cases. The cases are higher now than they were at the peak in April and rising

It's shut for 2 weeks as advised by the local health protection team

Probably already been mentioned but PHE were advising schools direct but now been passed over to local health protection teams i believe

Learned today that the for our school, PHE is not consulted neither is local health protection team, the HT makes the decisions and send in a form to the local health authority. Wow.

Placemarking.

We have had 1 positive case in our school so far, it's incredibly variable. The children at my DC's school are receiving a good education at the moment. Worrying for the teachers and children in high risk areas and very concerning how these children will catch up. Of course extra funding, cleaning, ppe and an effective T&T is needed. I feel so enraged by that awful incompetent Dido.

I'm not sure there are any safe areas in a pandemic though. Maybe the Isle of Man or somewhere. It can all change quickly. Dd's 6th form had been in full time until an outbreak just started.

Yes sorry there has been 5 positive cases... And possibly a year 11 party on the weekend 🙄

Agree can change very quickly and Gov 🙄 should act accordingly.

62% with no students isolating - can’t find that

It’s not no students isolating, it’s no students isolating due to a case in school. Isolating because of e.g. a parent with covid isn’t counted.

Contact tracing and only isolating kids who sat next to the positive case isn’t enough to stop transmission. You can see it going around a class or year group, but only if you look carefully for kids being off with the symptoms kids get, or for asymptomatic cases that are accidentally caught. If you were just looking for positive cases and the main three symptoms, you’d be baffled by what was going on.

We desperately need mass testing where there are positive cases. Allowing it to spread unchecked by pretending that testing is enough to pick it up is resulting in multiple isolations for the same kids. It’s outrageous.

There is such a basic misunderstanding of attendance data from some posters on this thread. Prior to the pandemic the targets set to individuals were 95% attendance and schools had targets of upwards of 92% attendance on any given day.

Most schools cannot meet their attendance targets : that must tell you something.

Historically, I see this on threads where parents say 'she has good attendance. they told me it was 88%'. Just because it is a big number doesn't mean it is good.

And frankly some posters on here minimising covid impact are spectacularly missing the point. Sure a child may not get very ill but they may spread it onwards to someone who will. I thought that was a basic message there.

I absolutely would not minimise covid having had a close colleague die (transmission at work - nhs). The transmission is not straightforward from what we see in an acute hospital setting. We do need ++++ testing.

Sure a child may not get very ill but they may spread it onwards to someone who will.

There is also the fact that if secondary schools are helping to fuel the second wave we may have to stay in lockdown (to prevent collapse of hospital care) for far longer if we do not get school transmission under control. And for a very many students the economic fallout of repeated, long lockdowns will be very detrimental indeed.

Sure a child may not get very ill but they may spread it onwards to someone who will.

Vulnerable staff and DC should not be in school. I would extend this to DC living with vulnerable family members.

Other than that, frankly, DC should not be coming into contact with vulnerable family members while shielding is in operation.