Secondary schools are totally stuffed, WELL-RESPECTED SCIENTISTS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

I don't normally get asked for an encore, more usually 'urgh, not another bloody thread', but per a request we have a follow-up to the resoundingly popular:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4078722-Secondary-schools-are-fucked-BOFFINS-ADMIT

Feedback has been received and acted upon re the title so hopefully that will temper the urge to complain.

Quick round-up of where we were at:

1. the infection rate is now highest in secondary school pupils in Y7-11, higher than uni students and sixth formers. They're not catching it at the pub...

2. The government/ONS put out misleading figures to suggest that teachers weren't at higher risk than NHS frontline workers, where actually looking at the data, they may well be. They fudged this by calling the largest group of teachers, who are at higher risk than frontline NHS staff 'teachers of an unknown type' and pretended they were irrelevant.

3. The DfE have changed the format of their attendance statistics report to remove the reference to how many hundreds of thousands of kids are currently isolating due to exposure to covid at school.

4. Boffins are cool

New info: The Guardian reports that teachers are being instructed to ignore app notifications to self-isolate by the school helpline and this might be a bad thing. They can't help themselves though, and have a lovely photo of a socially distanced classroom of lies at the top of the story.

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/nov/16/union-says-teachers-in-england-being-told-to-pause-covid-app-in-school

Just for balance, my dc's schools and all my friends' dc's schools are fine at the moment. A few bubbles self-isolating but I am in a big WA group and none of our many kids are off school. I asked my kids yesterday if they knew of any teachers off school and none of them were. S London. I do realise this is not a huge sample size btw, and I'm not trying to imply that there aren't problems elsewhere.

How many are in the groups?
And how many students overall are in the schools as a combined number?

The students don’t k ow anything. It’s been kept as quiet as possible.

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince

The average group of DC sent home in secondary is 3% of the roll. But again 62% of secondaries do not have a single DC isolating.

This picture being presented of bubbles bursting and basically every DC sent home is nonsense.

Says who?

Are you involved in teaching or education?
Do you know anyone who is?
So how do you know what’s really going on?
The DFE is just a propaganda machine

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince

Again, how do you know they’ve only had 2 cases?

I have a relative amongst the student body in my school. They have no idea about who has cases unless they are in the same year.

They know nothing about the 16 cases outside their own year.

Because we get emails from HT regardless of which year group, so we all know what's going on in the entire school. We have had one case in year 9 and one case in year 11, neither of those are DD's year, but we are kept in the loop. We also get a weekly update from the HT and Health and Wellbeing, on status of Covid security, what's working, what isn't and any changes that are being made. The year 9 was beginning of term, so came in from outside of school, the year 11 I don't know.

We haven't had any teacher or support staff cases.

From that data

Approximately 89% of pupils on roll in state-funded schools were in attendance on 5 November, similar to 15 October.

Our attendance estimates include 4-year olds in reception, 16-year olds in year 11 and all students in sixth forms

17,400 state-funded schools [5] responded to the survey on 5 November. This represents 80% of all state-funded schools

-as you're fully aware this is a thread specifically about secondary schools and this data doesn't relate to those specifically but to all schools of which there are many more, and smaller, than secondary.

You are comparing apples and oranges. That data isn't suitable for a thread about secondary schools

Additionally, the school only sends home the entire year for one day, contact traces close contacts, deep cleans the year area, and then everyone comes back next day.

Many more primary schools that should say. What percentage of schools are secondary schools do you think?

That’s normal Baaaaah, although I’m suprised at the deep clean. No one is really doing that anymore.

Are these cases you refer to recent?

Can I ask what you are trying to achieve with these threads? Not being controversial I want to know.

I just want safe schools and the government to stop lying.

@Hyperbolistic

Can I ask what you are trying to achieve with these threads? Not being controversial I want to know.

I answered this question already.

Clearly given that the last one reached 1000 posts in 3 days, people want to discuss what is going on.

Additionally, the school only sends home the entire year for one day, contact traces close contacts, deep cleans the year area, and then everyone comes back next day.

My school traces close contacts while they all stay in school. Even in 6th form when we had a child who attending whilst awaiting a test result (which turned out to be positive). Deep cleaning not done at all.

It agree it would be great to find a safer way forward. I'd be happy for my DC to do blended learning but they are set up well for that at home. It's definitely a tricky one.

TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince. First case was early in September, just as they came back, so brought in to school. Second case this week. Some evidence of Year 11 partying going on outside of school. It still amazes me that parents allow this..... but there you go, no cure for stupid.

just for the record

In 79% of state secondaries the attendance is 87%
Indy schools response rate: 48% and attendance is 92%
So there is quite a bit of guessing going on from dfe.

Both numbers are from linked dfe.

1. "We estimate approximately 4%" they should not estimate. They are the Dfe, they should know by mid-day max when real time registers have arrived.

1. "Most groups asked to self-isolate are relatively small, the average (median) was approximately 12 to 13% of the total number on roll in state-funded primaries and 3 to 4% in state-funded secondaries"

This is way more interesting. As it seems to contradict the other data that primary aged kids are less likely to get covid. Would be interesting to know if they have to isolate due to teacher infection or other household

Didn't see that HoneBadger made similar points already

And how are you sure they’ve had no cases in between? They only contact the year group affected.

Sorry to sound so suspicious, but everything is being hidden by the government. Very few schools now contact anyone unless it’s direct contacts.

And the unions are now having to investigate why educational staff have to turn of the NHS tracking app

Doesn’t it just reflect that in primary it is much more likely the whole class is deemed close contact and sent home?

The average group of DC sent home in secondary is 3% of the roll. But again 62% of secondaries do not have a single DC isolating.

86% students attending school normally
1 in 9 students out
90% schools in ‘some capacity’. This can mean from key worker children only to fully open.

62% with no students isolating - can’t find that figure made up 🤨?

As it seems to contradict the other data that primary aged kids are less likely to get covid.

Round here they seem to be sending whole classes home in primary rather than just those who sit near the affected child. So the number of children send home per case is higher, which would lead to more children at home despite fewer cases.

I don't have data to back this up though, it is just anecdotal from friends with kids across a few primaries.

Nope @HerdyGerdy, 99.6% of schools are open in some capacity. 38% of secondaries have DC isolating with an average group size of 3% of folk.

[quote HakeCod]@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince

The average group of DC sent home in secondary is 3% of the roll. But again 62% of secondaries do not have a single DC isolating.

This picture being presented of bubbles bursting and basically every DC sent home is nonsense.[/quote]
Is that 62% don't have a child isolating because they have been told to by school, or 62% don't have a child with an X code on the register?

At my school (in Cornwall, in an area with really low cases), there has not been a single day without a child with an X code on my register because of symptoms or contact with an infected person (or some other reason).

I'd be amazed if we are the exception not the rule.

I suspect that 62% at the very least does not include students with cough/temperature who are waiting for tests/results. Even though many of those would normally be in school.

Also. My school, according to the local Facebook, hasn’t had cases. They’re all super proud of us.

Reality: loss of three CEV staff in core subjects.
Three teachers positive so far = loss of fortnight’s teaching.
60 students out in the last week alone but across all year groups. Not including normal illnesses.

It’s all lies. It makes me so angry that no one is telling the truth. It’s the elephant in the room.

The majority of schools in my city have students out. Sometimes it’s in the local paper. Sometimes it’s not. The last time it was in there were 31 schools affected.