Secondary schools are totally stuffed, WELL-RESPECTED SCIENTISTS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

I don't normally get asked for an encore, more usually 'urgh, not another bloody thread', but per a request we have a follow-up to the resoundingly popular:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4078722-Secondary-schools-are-fucked-BOFFINS-ADMIT

Feedback has been received and acted upon re the title so hopefully that will temper the urge to complain.

Quick round-up of where we were at:

1. the infection rate is now highest in secondary school pupils in Y7-11, higher than uni students and sixth formers. They're not catching it at the pub...

2. The government/ONS put out misleading figures to suggest that teachers weren't at higher risk than NHS frontline workers, where actually looking at the data, they may well be. They fudged this by calling the largest group of teachers, who are at higher risk than frontline NHS staff 'teachers of an unknown type' and pretended they were irrelevant.

3. The DfE have changed the format of their attendance statistics report to remove the reference to how many hundreds of thousands of kids are currently isolating due to exposure to covid at school.

4. Boffins are cool

New info: The Guardian reports that teachers are being instructed to ignore app notifications to self-isolate by the school helpline and this might be a bad thing. They can't help themselves though, and have a lovely photo of a socially distanced classroom of lies at the top of the story.

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/nov/16/union-says-teachers-in-england-being-told-to-pause-covid-app-in-school

@thenewaveragebear1983

We were also told yesterday that a child who had moved away from the seating plan on the school bus to sit by her friend was not allowed to isolate because 'we can only go on the seating plan' - so we now have the best friend of a child who's now tested positive who sat by that child every morning last week wandering round school, not allowed to be isolated.

It is frightening in school at the moment, it feels so precarious

As it is the child’s best friend, you would have thought the child would be Abel to work this one out for themselves and inform their parents. The school is pathetic. Truly ridiculous. How many people will this child now infect ?

My DS is worried about school, he couldn't sleep last night as he was fretting. He says he's seeing a growing number of people coughing - pupils and teachers - and he's not convinced they all know they don't have covid. A boy he sits next to in one of his subjects was coughing yesterday.

He says he's not worried for himself but he's worried he'll bring it home and give it to me and his dad.

I don't know what to say to him. I reassured him not to worry about us, but we all know his dad and I have health issues that make catching covid not ideal.

And I tried to reassure him that if he does catch it, it likely won't be as bad as he fears. And I've spoken about how a cough could just be a normal cold. And how there are risks in life but we have to just get on with it and enjoy living. But he's a smart kid, he can see for himself that the situation in schools is bullshit - what can I possibly say to him that'll reassure him while sticking to the truth?

They make them wear masks in the corridors and they have to stick to their seating plan, but they sit close to other DC and they don't socially distance in the playground.

He's right that it's a risk. But if I pull him out of school we'll lose his school place, won't we? And it'll disrupt his learning.

Sorry, possibly not the point of this thread, just thought you lot would understand.

I'm not really asking for advice as what can we do? Nothing as far as I can see.

And ir doesn't help that we're stuck with a government who appear to see us more like cattle than living breathing people like them, and ar more concerned from profiting from this "opportuny" than oh, I dunno, the basics like setting up a decent testing and track and trace system.

Gah! Sorry for typos! eg should be "opportunity"

We have a trend of parents keeping students off for 5 or 6 school days, pending a 'test', not getting the test and sending them back. This may recue spread, I guess but it means any cases are hidden. We also ahve staff doing the same thing!

Notwithstanding, we have 10-20 teaching staff off every day , requiring cover. Last week, one year 9 said they had 5 cover lessons one day , and at least one per day.

I am CEV, my DD is a sixth former

I know I am at risk with DD being in school, but am taking that risk (and clamping down on every other risk else)

Information from the school has dried up. DD knows that pupils have been sent to SI in her year group (positive teacher), including one close friend

The school has previously informed me by phone call when groups are being sent home, this do that I can decide on when I need to increase measured to isolate me from DD at home.

They are no longer going this.

This has changed this for us - I shall have to isolate from DD all the time, now it might have come to that anyhow depending on virus levels in the community. But it needn’t be like that now, and I am very disappointed at the change

Is this correct? I've just read that schools can only report a positive case in a student if they've developed the symptoms in school?

I said this on the other thread , but this has to be deliberate.
The fudging of numbers and data
The spin and misleading photos
The blatant denying of more recent proof of teenagers and children spreading it.
It must be policy

[quote Piggywaspushed]I have not heard good things about how the French government are treating teachers and parents, have to say sheep. I think there might be better countries to look towards.

Also in Guardian this morning (look away from the photo noble!)

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/11/schools-coronavirus-ventilation-masks-pupils[/quote]
Did every single newspaper in the country simultaneously lose all of its previous supply of stock classrooms photos over lockdown?

It’s appalling!

I'm shocked at many if the posts above,

Doubly so at We also ahve staff doing the same thing! jeeze piggy, how stupid!

We are getting some parents refusing to test their children. Sen so apparently don't want to stress. Except that the particular children would be absolutely fine tbh. There's a very few a would see it could be a problem for but not them.

This is very stressful for staff.

If staff were doing it too it would lead to a major breakdown in trust.

Also in Guardian this morning (look away from the photo noble!)
*
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/11/schools-coronavirus-ventilation-masks-pupilss

Wow! Just wow 😯
6 kids in that tiny class... all beautifully spaced apart 🤔

I am busily writing to the Guardian and BBC right now as the reporting on what is happening in schools is appalling and misleading.

Is this correct? I've just read that schools can only report a positive case in a student if they've developed the symptoms in school?

What does that mean in practice? Is that discounting weekends or evenings too?

Most would get symptoms in the eve or over night, surely.

We have had recent cases that started in the half term holiday. Students and staff. Nothing formally said as they weren't in school when the symptoms started. Wondering if weekends are the same.

I think we need a teenager to turn undercover journalist. Or better still, a group of teens from different schools so the public can see the true situation.

It must be policy

I don’t really see The Guardian as a mouthpiece of a Tory government. But they have been very wedded to the Great Barrington pile of shite, and I suspect that ‘carry on’ (regardless of collateral) is what’s behind it

Re guardian:

Yet the actual data about Covid-19 in children is murkyy. In early household contact-tracing studiess, younger children were less likely to be infected by family members or to be the first or “index” case. But this may have been because children infected with Covid tend to have mild or even no symptoms.

I took toddler for a test yesterday. V close contact with staff at nursery and he started a bit of a cold and seems to have sore eyes. Not proper symptoms but I've read enough to know you can't rule that out.

However doing the test in a car is close to impossible. I had to do drive through as I'm expected at work this week, wasn't working yesterday (well, I was, badly doing prep at home with 2 SI children).

It was covered in snot. Couldn't get into his mouth. Woman at test site said she wasn't sure if it would be ok or not, and fully agreed with me that many young children's tests would not count and so wouldn't be included in statistics.

She seemed to think that a negative result means enough was there to get a test result but I don't know enough about that.

I suppose positivity rates would show something, but I honestly wouldn't expect many bother getting a test with a small child. Esp if they themselves are positive.

T and T said to assume whole family positive if 2-3 test positive in a family of 4 + to a local school where a child was sent in after 3 family members tested positive, then closing a big bubble.

The knock on effect has resulted in some classes at my school being sent home as a staff member has a child in that bubble and we don't have enough staff.

Zoe Hyde article is good. And horrific.

In Sweden, a school outbreak led to 18 of 76 staff testing positive and the death of one teacher.27 Children are not routinely tested in Sweden,27 severely limiting the ability to determine their role in outbreaks there. However, 70 cases of multisystem inflammatory syndrome have been reported, suggesting that substantial transmission to children has occured.28 This figure is about ten times that of neighbouring Finland and Norway combined,29-31 which unlike Sweden, closed schools.

@longwigglylines

My DS is worried about school, he couldn't sleep last night as he was fretting. He says he's seeing a growing number of people coughing - pupils and teachers - and he's not convinced they all know they don't have covid. A boy he sits next to in one of his subjects was coughing yesterday.

He says he's not worried for himself but he's worried he'll bring it home and give it to me and his dad.

I don't know what to say to him. I reassured him not to worry about us, but we all know his dad and I have health issues that make catching covid not ideal.

And I tried to reassure him that if he does catch it, it likely won't be as bad as he fears. And I've spoken about how a cough could just be a normal cold. And how there are risks in life but we have to just get on with it and enjoy living. But he's a smart kid, he can see for himself that the situation in schools is bullshit - what can I possibly say to him that'll reassure him while sticking to the truth?

They make them wear masks in the corridors and they have to stick to their seating plan, but they sit close to other DC and they don't socially distance in the playground.

He's right that it's a risk. But if I pull him out of school we'll lose his school place, won't we? And it'll disrupt his learning.

Sorry, possibly not the point of this thread, just thought you lot would understand.

I'm not really asking for advice as what can we do? Nothing as far as I can see.

And ir doesn't help that we're stuck with a government who appear to see us more like cattle than living breathing people like them, and ar more concerned from profiting from this "opportuny" than oh, I dunno, the basics like setting up a decent testing and track and trace system.

I don't know how old your DS is but I wouldn't lie to him. Schools are unsafe right now, and I am not sure it is helping anxious teens to be told they are.

If he is feeling really anxious and there is a lot of coughing in school, I would consider keeping him off for a little while at least- tell the school he is feeling anxious about coming in due to your vulnerability and the number of children coughing in school. They should work with you to come up with a solution and in the meantime he can get a bit of breathing room?

We have a few kids off or in and out with anxiety at the moment, and we are working with them (e.g. one has permission to eat lunch in a classroom, rather than the main hall).

It's just all shit. I've got a DD in 6th form and the whole thing is so stressful for her it's unreal. The school are going bananas over (as someone called it so beautifully upthread) Hygiene Theatre - marked routes to take round the buildings that make no sense and just cause different bottlenecks, "deep cleaning" every few minutes it seems which means that 6th formers with free study periods between lessons have nowhere to sit and study and also aren't allowed to leave the building anymore so are literally wandering round and trying to find somewhere to stand and wait for their next lesson to start, library closed, student support centre closed, no textbooks, no work permitted to be handed in on paper.... All this palaver going on and yet the bus she catches to school every day (we live rurally and walking/cycling is not an option) is jammed with standing room only, kids closing the windows as fast as anyone tries to open them, and all year groups packed in together like sardines for the 40 minute journey with nobody tracking which kids use that bus and who sits or stands where. But apparently it's all a "covid safe environment". My arse

The schools round here are all fine.

Hardly any cases, you sound like you have an agenda.

The biggest transfer issue is in and between homes, this has Been shown all along. Hence the high levels with large multi generational families living together and overcrowded housing.

Our high school has close to over 150 isolating. Year 10 went down yesterday. My daughter has covid along with our whole house.

Basically only 6 children were told to isolate from school. I kicked off because my daughter interacts with a lot more than those 6 children in school and lunch. School saying hands are tied and it's health departments decision who isolated. Then a second child declared positive and suddenly 52 are off. Makes no sense at all

@scubadive

The schools round here are all fine.

Hardly any cases, you sound like you have an agenda.

At the moment. "Hardly any cases that they are aware of" would be a better thing to say as kids and teenagers are largely asymptomatic. The parents get symptoms and receive a positive test. Child self isolates due to household positive. Noone else is informed. As a teacher I only know when I start seeing a load of X codes on the register in one of my classes. Then at some point a child is symptomatic and close contacts are sent home. Again, parents are not necessarily informed if their child is not affected.

30% of all school children in Hull self isolating, but yeaaaaaah.... we're totally making it up.

Whilst I'm laying here feeling sick with a horrid headache (only symptoms) I have been thinking.

Since Wednesday last week there have been 9 positive test results of people around me.
I haven't left the house since 2/11. Kids only been school and back. My DS is asymptotic aged 9. Dd only had a headache.

So imagine if it's based on viral load. Kids at school wearing masks etc are still getting small amounts of viral load and only suffering headache or sniffly noses hence they aren't isolating or testing. This viral load grows when hits adults who drop like flies while kids still only got sniffly noses.
Have spoke to enough track and trace people in last 2 days to know that even they believe kids are the secret spreaders.

I didn't believe this before at all. Had total faith it was all fine. Infact only knew one person who had covid and even he had no symptoms. But now I'm seeing everyone around me drop like flies and it's all school linked.

Funny how you never see threads on here with people working in factories moaning about their rubbish coronavirus conditions - which are, as the spread data tells us, just as bad, actually probably much worse