Secondary schools are totally stuffed, WELL-RESPECTED SCIENTISTS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

I don't normally get asked for an encore, more usually 'urgh, not another bloody thread', but per a request we have a follow-up to the resoundingly popular:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4078722-Secondary-schools-are-fucked-BOFFINS-ADMIT

Feedback has been received and acted upon re the title so hopefully that will temper the urge to complain.

Quick round-up of where we were at:

1. the infection rate is now highest in secondary school pupils in Y7-11, higher than uni students and sixth formers. They're not catching it at the pub...
   
   
2. The government/ONS put out misleading figures to suggest that teachers weren't at higher risk than NHS frontline workers, where actually looking at the data, they may well be. They fudged this by calling the largest group of teachers, who are at higher risk than frontline NHS staff 'teachers of an unknown type' and pretended they were irrelevant.
   
   
3. The DfE have changed the format of their attendance statistics report to remove the reference to how many hundreds of thousands of kids are currently isolating due to exposure to covid at school.
   
   
4. Boffins are cool
   
   
   New info: The Guardian reports that teachers are being instructed to ignore app notifications to self-isolate by the school helpline and this might be a bad thing. They can't help themselves though, and have a lovely photo of a socially distanced classroom of lies at the top of the story.
   
   www.theguardian.com/education/2020/nov/16/union-says-teachers-in-england-being-told-to-pause-covid-app-in-school

[Smelliethenelephant]

@bonkerz we have the same experience. My year 11 Dd brought it home from school and we have all had it. It is endemic at her school, many parents have been unwell, one seriously unwell that I know of. It is horrible, so stressful for the kids, and there seems no end in sight. Track and trace were not interested in the one genuine, important contact that we had, only in constantly ringing each of us to tell us to isolate from each other.

[WindChimeTinkle]

@Bonkerz of course. But it's the government restrictions not the virus that are affecting businesses.

[noblegiraffe]

@scubadive

The schools round here are all fine.

Hardly any cases, you sound like you have an agenda.

Yep. To let people know the government is spinning them a line and the media are colluding.
That schools are not safe.
That we need better mitigation measures to stop things getting worse. I think my number one choice would be mass testing, particularly following a positive case. Then masks and ventilation.
That even if kids get it mildly, there is massive disruption in schools and hundreds of thousands of kids are at home unable to leave the house.

[StealthPolarBear]

@CallmeAngelina

Is this correct? I've just read that schools can only report a positive case in a student if they've developed the symptoms in school?

Someone in ds's class had a positive test yesterday after her mum had it. The girl was symptom less and not in school yesterday so I hope that's not the message that's going out.

[LimeLemonOrange]

I'm getting letters from DSs school 2-3 times a day telling me each time of a new case in school.

My other DSs school also has cases but doesn't send letters. I know this because DH teaches there. The latter school sends fewer pupils home to isolate following cases.

DS1s school has removed the instruction for kids to wear masks in corridors and has also removed their one way system, which is madness.

DS2s school is using various systems that have caused more corridor crowding and bottlenecks than there were previously.

With both schools I feel it's insane exposing teachers and children to overcrowded poorly ventilated spaces with such a steady stream of positive cases.

One of the schools has already had a parent die, and parent's cousin die, and those are just known deaths (there are possibly more that my DH doesn't know about due to confidentiality).

[SansaSnark]

@WindChimeTinkle

Get real.

1. Kids need an education.
2. Kids needs to act like kids, not neurotic mumsnet hypochondriacs.
3. Covid is mild in vast majority of kids (and adults),
4. There is no miraculous way for hundreds of kids to be at school and stay socially distant.
5. Why do so many mumsnet types constantly moan about schools?

We all agree that kids need an education.

The problem is, in a large number of cases, they aren't getting as good an education as they could, because they are repeatedly having to self isolate and schools are shutting due to lack of teachers.

So, we need a different solution.

Also, secondary schools are clearly driving community spread- at some point we do need to consider whether having schools open is worth sacrificing whole other sectors of the economy.

[SansaSnark]

[quote WindChimeTinkle]@Bonkerz but you will get over it. No different to norovirus or countless other infections.[/quote]
That's pretty insensitive to say to someone when you don't know their health status actually.

You can't know for sure someone will get over it.

[Bonkerz]

I feel what's mad is that tests are not available for the other proven symptoms such as headache sickness and diarrhoea and sniffly nose.

So many kids carrying on as usual with these issues when it's probably covid.

And it's not about the kids not getting too poorly it's who they pass it on to and how it affects them!!

[SansaSnark]

People would have said the schools around here were "fine" until a few days ago, too.

www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/callington-community-college-closes-down-4703854

[TheHoneyBadger]

We were the strange outlier as the only school in the county to not have cases or closures till the week before half term. A year 11 had it and the 'advice' was we could only send home a few kids who'd sat next to them then 6 cases from various classes in the same bubble popped up and it was acknowledged the bubble would need to close.

Since then year 13 has been out and a couple of other year groups have had to be out for a day whilst their zone was cleaned and close contacts traced.

Tier 1 area till the lockdown.

People seem so intent on denial

[TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince]

‘Kids need an education’

Yeah they do.

My school has 250 isolating. Some of them have already isolated once are twice. They need an education too. But they aren’t really getting one.

How would you address that then?Or the 8000 kids isolating in Liverpool before full lockdown?

Do please share your bright ideas. We’re all waiting for your words of wisdom on how all kids need an education but in fact aren’t getting one.

I’m waiting on tenterhooks for your amazing solutions🙄

[SansaSnark]

Another school that would have been "fine" last week.

www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/students-poltair-school-ordered-self-4706569

[TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince]

And their is a piece in the Guardian today about cold classrooms. Windows and doors open for ventilation means cold classrooms all the time.

Imagine that in February with 10 ft of snow. We always cop for a load of snow where l live. Nice northerly biting through those open windows and -2 outside. It’s actually illegal to fall below a certain temperature. But schools as ever don’t count.

[Baaaahhhhh]

Just for light relief, I think DD is safer at school than travelling to it. She has to get on a packed train, serving three secondary schools where the majority go by train, the rest by coach, and where it is standing room only. Lots of DC's on those trains share siblings in each of the schools, and these schools have had only a couple of cases each. Luck?

[TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince]

Again, how do you know they’ve only had 2 cases?

I have a relative amongst the student body in my school. They have no idea about who has cases unless they are in the same year.

They know nothing about the 16 cases outside their own year.

[LastGoldenDaysOfSummer]

@WindChimeTinkle

You only post on corona virus threads. I'm inclined to think you have an agenda.

[Smallwhiterat]

“We are getting some parents refusing to test their children. Sen so apparently don't want to stress. “

As a parent who will not test my child with SEN, get lost with the judging and the idea you know better than me what my child will cope with. Most of the time no one even knows my child has SEN and they function very well in mainstream with few adaptations. His teachers would probably think the same as you.

Child will not tolerate the nasal flu spray without days of preparation, a big bribe and two adults holding them, what do you think the chances are I’m going to safely get a stick up their nose and down their throat leaning over in the back of a car while they already feel rubbish and thus defensive? Even if I could it would lead to days, probably weeks of panic attacks, bed wetting and anxiety and make the next medical procedure ten times harder. Plus it would seriously damage his trust in me and I need him to absolutely trust me to keep him safe. It’s not as trivial as “avoiding stress”. Unless it is essential for their own health they won’t be tested. Obviously we would isolate instead and if a saliva test was available we would happily take that.

[HakeCod]

@SansaSnark

Except the figures actually show that only 4% of DC are absent from school for COVID reasons. 82% of schools do not have a single DC isolating.

Not ideal but far better than all of half of the DC being at home due to school closures or blended learning.

[TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince]

Hakecod, depends where you get your figures really doesn’t it?

[TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince]

Including photo!

[HakeCod]

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince

The figures are from the DfE. Clearly the overall absence rate is higher because all the things that DC are usually absent for at this time of year have not vanished.

[TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince]

Well l wouldn’t believe anything the DFE say tbh,

They:
Stopped bubbles closing and just isolated those who sat near the affected child
Stopped Public Health England giving advice to schools

Anything to do with Boris is tainted with lies. Why sis the DFE more likely to tell the truth than the unions?

[TheHoneyBadger]

You are being deliberately disingenuous hake.

Please do provide a link so that we can actually see the data, it's date and parameters. You just keep repeating a figure that contradicts other data sources and the on the ground experience of teachers and parents across the country yet refuse to provide links to back it up.

[LastGoldenDaysOfSummer]

@TheHoneyBadger

You are being deliberately disingenuous hake.

Please do provide a link so that we can actually see the data, it's date and parameters. You just keep repeating a figure that contradicts other data sources and the on the ground experience of teachers and parents across the country yet refuse to provide links to back it up.

I'm inclined to think it doesn't actually exist.

[HakeCod]

The link to all of the data is here explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/attendance-in-education-and-early-years-settings-during-the-coronavirus-covid-19-outbreak