Secondary schools are totally stuffed, WELL-RESPECTED SCIENTISTS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

I don't normally get asked for an encore, more usually 'urgh, not another bloody thread', but per a request we have a follow-up to the resoundingly popular:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4078722-Secondary-schools-are-fucked-BOFFINS-ADMIT

Feedback has been received and acted upon re the title so hopefully that will temper the urge to complain.

Quick round-up of where we were at:

1. the infection rate is now highest in secondary school pupils in Y7-11, higher than uni students and sixth formers. They're not catching it at the pub...

2. The government/ONS put out misleading figures to suggest that teachers weren't at higher risk than NHS frontline workers, where actually looking at the data, they may well be. They fudged this by calling the largest group of teachers, who are at higher risk than frontline NHS staff 'teachers of an unknown type' and pretended they were irrelevant.

3. The DfE have changed the format of their attendance statistics report to remove the reference to how many hundreds of thousands of kids are currently isolating due to exposure to covid at school.

4. Boffins are cool

New info: The Guardian reports that teachers are being instructed to ignore app notifications to self-isolate by the school helpline and this might be a bad thing. They can't help themselves though, and have a lovely photo of a socially distanced classroom of lies at the top of the story.

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/nov/16/union-says-teachers-in-england-being-told-to-pause-covid-app-in-school

Well, let's look at the evidence...

1. Schools will stay fully open
2. No masks allowed in classrooms where teachers and pupils spend the most time
3. Pupils are not allowed to be tested for the symptoms that kids are most likely to get.
4. Teachers (who in secondary will teach all bubbles without masks) are not to self isolate if there is a case in a class they have taught.
5. Fudging any data that may show teachers getting ill at a higher rate than the general population
6. Fudging data that may show school pupils having a higher infection rate than the general population
7. Not permitting / trying / mass testing in schools where there have been cases in case they find out how bad the spread is
8. Actually sending letter to parents to tell them to stop getting kids tested.

9 'fine parents who try and keep their kids off when in contact with a known positive case'. Although disclaimer: I've only seen this claimed on here. Not seen any corroborating evidence. Yet

10. Launch a propaganda campaign to convince parents that schools are safe using data from schools in lockdown, which every news outlet dutifully publicises.

11. Hide Gavin Williamson in a cupboard so that no journalist can accidentally ask him how his aim to reopen schools safely is going.

12. Announce that one of the school safety measures will be children in bubbles which will burst when there are cases. Stop this midway through September and start sending home as few kids as possible. Remove the schools remit from PHE control and put DfE in charge to enforce this.

13. Produce a Tiered system of responses to infection levels (rotas, masks, closures) to reassure parents, and shut the unions up. Then never mention them again and in fact state that they are not to be used.

14. When Hull begs for rotas due to imminent collapse of system, send a letter to all local authorities re-iterating NO ROTAS

@noblegiraffe

Arses, that’s 14

Sorry, snuck one in while you weren't looking!

15. Have some strange control over the media so they don’t mention any issues, or if they do, it must be accompanied by a picture of a jumbo classroom containing max 5 kids.

13. Pointing out the importance of ventilation in indoor settings to slow transmission but then not providing any funding to schools to improve the existing windows/air conditioning systems.

Talking about the media - should we mention the social media that was running very recently (FB etc) that was telling everyone that schools had reduced class sizes. And the media only showing photos of reduced class sizes. When this is ridiculous as it is business as usual numbers/space wise.

oops 16.

17. Removing the social distancing rules on public transport buses (London) for use solely by school children so they are packed in.

Maybe this deserves its own thread with a properly referenced op - links to reputable sources etc?
I'm done for today though, so I won't be doing it tonight. If anyone can't sleep and fancies it....?

I too am going to bed but I would agree it deserves its own thread and a link to that thread should be sent to as many media outlets as possible.

This is a story on a plate. Particularly the disappearing tiered system.

Presumably a lot of the country would be at masks and rotas if they were following it, instead they're heading in the opposite direction and not even sending home all of a bubble when one child tests positive.

If Hull isn't in Tier 3 of that original system (secondaries closed), I'd like to know at what rate per 100k Tier 3 would take effect (Hull currently has 60% of their schoolkids off isolating).

School may be open but it's not much use if kids can't go in because they are self isolating. Would much rather week in week off with Sen child in school, than 2 days in and 16 days off. They already had 11 school days off after they had been in school for about 11 or 12 days. They lost days at the beginning of term to allow time to phase children back too. I can see school closing soon anyway.

God am I the only night owl around here?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4086336-The-government-is-encouraging-covid-spread-in-schools

I even didn't swear in the title for you.

@IloveJKRowling I've been saying for weeks that it feels like they want schools to have it. Call me cynical but the very fact that the three big symptoms we've had drummed into us to look for are not even the most common symptoms, and for most people they aren't the first symptoms, just seems to me that there's an ulterior motive. After having Covid and being on boards on here there are a common set of 'pre-symptoms' that seem almost universal, and yet it's hidden in plain sight from us all. Good luck herd, off you go now.

Re:attendance codes. I've only been in my role since September, and we are in a school with actually quite few cases (I think 7 staff and maybe 10 children in total) but I have seen situations where children have moved seats on buses and we've been told they can't isolate as 'we must go by the seating plan', and they've been marked as o. We also have a few children off with anxiety related conditions relating to the pandemic and the rising situation in school who are marked O when they self impose isolation. It comes from above though, although our SLT don't fight it (not sure if they even could? )
On the other hand, myself and another member of admin have now set up a rather rigorous phone system of questions for children off school with symptoms (even colds) and following those up, because you'd be amazed how many parents 'know it's not Covid' and just keep them off til their temp or cough goes and send them back. I'm not sure that a young child (or even some adults) would be able to identify that they had lost their sense of smell anyway, especially if it's only dulled
But considering that we're not actually allowed to ask for evidence of tests, positive or negative, or dates - not even from our own students, never mind from other family members- the whole system is a joke anyway.

It is ridiculous that schools can't ask for evidence of test results.

Obviously not being asked for a negative test result is dangerous, but equally imagine the chaos that could be caused if a parent decided to lie about a positive test result.

(I don't know why they would do that, but there are some odd people out there).

@noblegiraffe

God am I the only night owl around here?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4086336-The-government-is-encouraging-covid-spread-in-schools

I even didn't swear in the title for you.

morning! And thank you

Schools aren't allowed to insist on medical evidence of anything, for anyone, even staff. If eg. Child's parent tests positive, we cannot ask for evidence if his test/dates etc. We can ask, but we can't insist. What we can do is say that without seeing the negative test we must insist on the child staying off 14 days anyway, but we don't do that. Of all the parents I have asked if they would be happy to send the proof of tests, every single one has agreed without question. People are, generally, not dicks.

The attitude (particularly at the beginning of term) was that parents and teachers were going to absolutely take the piss on this and use it as a free for all to get a lovely 2 weeks off Scott free locked in your house like a prisoner? Now we're a bit further down the line, with a few cases among staff, I think they are a bit more inclined to see that actually people want to be in work and that self isolating is a burden we will all have to carry at some point..

Now I've had Covid, I have implemented a 1m 'no go zone' around me; I'm not doing 14 days if you test positive. I view every single person as if they are going to test positive tomorrow. If that means it takes me ages to do anything because I'm constantly moving aside, so be it. They think I'm the corona-police. And yet there they are all using the same tea towel and hand towel in the staff room to dry their mugs and cutlery

This bit in your latest post @thenewaveragebear1983

Schools aren't allowed to insist on medical evidence of anything, for anyone, even staff.

^
Our school insists on seeing staff results - my TA was off after having a test, and had to send a screen shot to the school of the (negative) result. Should they not do this? They have always asked to see appointment cards/medical letters etc for medical appts that can only be arranged in school time.

SophieB the DfE guidance is that schools can request but are not allowed to mandate evidence is provided.

Thank you for clarifying @mrsanflowerpot

Yes they can request but it's a data protection issue. If you are unwell and off sick, for any reason, they aren't actually allowed to ask you what is wrong with you, what your appointment is for, or what the results are - for anything.
Of course people tend to phone in sick and say 'I've got x,y,z' or 'I've got a hospital appointment for x,y,z' but the school aren't actually allowed to insist on any medical evidence for anything (not just Covid)

They can ask to see the appointment cards etc, but you can redact the information. They aren't allowed to ask what it is for.

Our school does not ask to see results. However, anyone wishing to return before the 14 day isolation period is up, can only do so if they show evidence of a negative test.

@Erictheavocado

Our school does not ask to see results. However, anyone wishing to return before the 14 day isolation period is up, can only do so if they show evidence of a negative test.

But unfortunately that's exactly what schools are not allowed to do. They can of course go against the guidelines and ask, as your school is sensibly doing, but if push came to shove they could not refuse to take a child because they hadn't seen evidence of a negative test.

@Erictheavocado

Our school does not ask to see results. However, anyone wishing to return before the 14 day isolation period is up, can only do so if they show evidence of a negative test.

If they've been asked to isolate, they shouldn't be returning regardless.

Or do you mean if they have symptoms?

If push came to shove (assuming a state school), they couldn't force the child to stay off- I'm not sure about staff.

World This Weekend just reporting on New York, touched on schools closing. NY State Governor telling people “don’t be a turkey this Thanksgiving”.

Omfg.

Twats at the bbc:

Note the "amount of contact" trope.

Covid risk: 3 people, 3 very different Covid risks. What's yours? www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54251632

The only teacher is a retired teacher.