Talk

Advanced search

The government is encouraging covid spread in schools

(774 Posts)
noblegiraffe Sun 22-Nov-20 02:02:04

Bear with me, because if they're not, you have to explain this:

1. Schools will stay fully open end of. Even when they're not.

2. No masks allowed in classrooms where teachers and pupils spend the most time. The expectation that they would be mandated in corridors is fudged at the last minute to lockdown areas only.

3. Pupils are not allowed to be tested for the symptoms that kids are most likely to get.

4. Teachers (who in secondary will teach all bubbles without masks) are not to self isolate if there is a case in a class they have taught.

5. Fudge any data that may show teachers getting ill at a higher rate than the general population and Chris Whitty lying about it

6. Fudge data that may show school pupils having a higher infection rate than the general population

7. Not permitting / trying / mass testing in schools where there have been cases in case they find out how bad the spread is.

8. Actually sending letter to parents to tell them to stop getting kids tested.

9 Fine parents who try and keep their kids off when in contact with a known positive case.

10. Launch a propaganda campaign to convince parents that schools are safe using data from schools in lockdown, which every news outlet dutifully publicises. Continuing that propaganda campaign by releasing a video of socially distanced school kids wearing masks in classrooms.

11. Hide Gavin Williamson in a cupboard so that no journalist can accidentally ask him how his aim to reopen schools safely is going.

12. Announce that one of the school safety measures will be children in bubbles which will burst when there are cases. Stop this midway through September and start sending home as few kids as possible. Remove the schools remit from PHE control and put DfE in charge to enforce this.

13. Produce a Tiered system of responses to infection levels (rotas, masks, closures) to reassure parents, and shut the unions up. Then never mention them again and in fact state that they are not to be used.

14. When Hull begs for rotas due to imminent collapse of system, send a letter to all local authorities re-iterating NO ROTAS

15. Have some strange control over the media so they don’t mention any issues, or if they do, it must be accompanied by a picture of a jumbo classroom containing max 5 kids.

16. Tell teachers to ignore the app when it tells them to isolate, or to turn off the app completely

17. No funding for schools to implement any covid safety measures

Any other explanations for this list?

OP’s posts: |
noblegiraffe Sun 22-Nov-20 02:03:56

OP with links:

1. Schools will stay fully open www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/will-schools-close-again-england-lockdown-covid-coronavirus-rules-uk/ (how quaint the recommendations in this article now seem. Deep clean where a positive case has been hah.

2. No masks allowed in classrooms where teachers and pupils spend the most time www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/26/what-does-new-masks-guidance-mean-for-schools-in-england (DfE guidelines say use in classrooms should be avoided. The expectation that they would be mandated in corridors is fudged at the last minute to lockdown areas only www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/26/face-masks-in-school-tory-mps-expressed-alarm-before-u-turn)

3. Pupils are not allowed to be tested for the symptoms that kids are most likely to get. covid.joinzoe.com/post/back-to-school ( "According to research from the COVID Symptom Study app over half (52%) of children school aged children (those under the age of 18) who tested positive for COVID don’t log any ‘adult’ classic symptoms (cough, fever, anosmia) in the week before and after the test. In addition, a third (33%) of children who tested positive for COVID never logged any of the 20 symptoms listed in the App suggesting many children are asymptomatic.... The top five symptoms in school aged children who test positive for COVID are; fatigue (55%) headache (53%), fever (49%), sore throat (38%) and loss of appetite (35%)."

4. Teachers (who in secondary will teach all bubbles without masks) are not to self isolate if there is a case in a class they have taught. www.tes.com/news/hancock-keep-supply-teachers-distanced-pupils but www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4042778-teachers-of-infected-students-not-required-to-self-isolate

5. Fudging any data that may show teachers getting ill at a higher rate than the general population and Chris Whitty lying about it twitter.com/sarahdrasmussen/status/1330294388354899969?s=21 (this twitter thread is a MUST READ)

6. Fudging data that may show school pupils having a higher infection rate than the general population (see any briefing versus ONS random sampling twitter.com/cyclingkev/status/1329773233596461056?s=21

7. Not permitting / trying / mass testing in schools where there have been cases in case they find out how bad the spread is (evidence: no mass testing compared to universities, except in private schools where they find loads of asymptomatic cases www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/news/18872874.sedbergh-school-reports-multiple-positive-cases-covid-19/

8. Actually sending letter to parents to tell them to stop getting kids tested. www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/gloucester-news/nhs-covid-19-letter-being-4544881

9 'fine parents who try and keep their kids off when in contact with a known positive case'. Although disclaimer: I've only seen this claimed on here. Not seen any corroborating evidence. Yet, But www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8693171/Headteacher-threatens-fine-parents-refuse-send-children-classroom-week.html

10. Launch a propaganda campaign to convince parents that schools are safe using data from schools in lockdown, which every news outlet dutifully publicises. Continuing that propaganda campaign by releasing a video of socially distanced school kids wearing masks in classrooms twitter.com/educationgovuk/status/1327293962873425924?s=21 (remember their use in classrooms should be avoided )

11. Hide Gavin Williamson in a cupboard so that no journalist can accidentally ask him how his aim to reopen schools safely is going. www.theguardian.com/education/2020/nov/21/is-gavin-williamson-the-worst-education-secretary-ever (doesn't mention school safety)

12. Announce that one of the school safety measures will be children in bubbles which will burst when there are cases. Stop this midway through September and start sending home as few kids as possible. Remove the schools remit from PHE control and put DfE in charge to enforce this.metro.co.uk/2020/09/14/coronavirus-bubbles-support-and-school-bubbles-explained-13267819/ conflating support bubbles and school bubbles changes to this [[https://teaching.blog.gov.uk/2020/09/28/how-schools-are-managing-bubbles-effectively/]

13. Produce a Tiered system of responses to infection levels (rotas, masks, closures) to reassure parents, and shut the unions up. Then never mention them again and in fact state that they are not to be used. www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-schools-can-plan-for-tier-2-local-restrictions/how-schools-can-plan-for-tier-2-local-restrictions

14. When Hull begs for rotas due to imminent collapse of system, send a letter to all local authorities re-iterating NO ROTAS www.tes.com/news/coronavirus-schools-must-stay-open-lockdown-health-chiefs-told

15. Have some strange control over the media so they don’t mention any issues, or if they do, it must be accompanied by a picture of a jumbo classroom containing max 5 kids. www.theguardian.com/education/2020/nov/18/exodus-of-exhausted-headteachers-predicted-in-england-after-pandemic

16. Telling teachers to ignore the app when it tells them to isolate, or to turn off the app completely www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54465356 www.theguardian.com/education/2020/nov/16/union-says-teachers-in-england-being-told-to-pause-covid-app-in-school

17. No funding for schools to implement any covid safety measures petition.parliament.uk/petitions/555718

OP’s posts: |
nex18 Sun 22-Nov-20 02:42:59

Some of what you’re saying isn’t true, well it’s not true of my kids high school.
3, 8 (and a little bit 7) - school sending children home and insisting on them having a negative result before returning to school when they present in school with non covid symptoms (sore throat, runny nose etc). Asymptomatic testing centres set up locally inviting those who do not have symptoms to be tested, the advert suggests that people who working or studying might want to participate.
4, 12 - Currently a whole year group and a few teachers (and a whole bus) are self isolating due to one positive test in a child.
2 - masks in corridors and inside spaces other than during lessons has always been compulsory at their school but I thought this had been introduced everywhere now?
16 - this is the case for lots of workplaces, workplace rules are supposed to supersede the app.

Mummyoflittledragon Sun 22-Nov-20 04:39:14

Most of this is true in dds school. The children weren’t being forced strongly enough to wear masks in corridors or on school buses at the beginning of term. As a result it was seen as uncool. At the time my dd wasn’t wearing her mask in the corridor. Subsequently she has been wearing hers for a while as there has been a crack down (albeit on another thread I said she wasn’t as I didn’t know this at the time). They are given the option to wear masks in class though.

Dd’s friend had all of the symptoms listed above apart from a fever not last week but the one prior. Dd had a day off as well with nausea, loss of appetite and lethargy. I think I’ve already had it albeit I don’t have detectable antibodies. Was that coronavirus for these two? Entirely possible. Too late to test now as it’s been at least 10 days. I’m sure had the entire school been tested, it would have shut. Especially this past week as cases are increasing. Still only single classes isolating in a 250 cohort, circa 1500 total years 7-13.

Fishes45 Sun 22-Nov-20 04:51:15

16 gets worse I’m afraid. New guidance this week is that if we get contacted by the app, we are categorically NOT to self isolate. Further investigation will be carried out to find out where the contact was. If it was a supermarket/shop etc we are told to ignore the app.

Teachers are effectively only to self isolate it the contact is someone they live with.

whatisgoingtohappen Sun 22-Nov-20 05:28:32

I work in a school (admin) and see some of the enactment of the above guidance first hand, and I genuinely don’t understand why my school, nice as it is in so many ways, is following it like a sheep.

At my kids’ school it’s masks everywhere including classrooms and to be honest I think that SLT have more brains and courage.

Though I am sure my kids’ school is also following the gaslighting guidance in many other ways.

Most upsetting is the imposition of unauthorised absences on families who have vulnerable members and who are genuinely worried. Because the guidance angry.

whatisgoingtohappen Sun 22-Nov-20 05:29:28

(At my school it’s masks in communal areas only.)

TwylaSands Sun 22-Nov-20 05:40:30

Ive worn masks all day every day since a few weeks in. At first we were all given visors. Our pupils were told if they want to wear a mask in class they can. This was after months of the head basically saying covid19 was not real. hmm

Ive 30 students in two classes. One of those classrooms is very small and im not at any point even 1 metre away from a child.

While the law states masks in communal areas, I spend every day telling children to wear their masks. Because they dont.

LadyPenelope68 Sun 22-Nov-20 05:45:56

@Fishes45
I’m a teacher, where is the guidance that says this? My colleagues and I haven’t seen this!
gets worse I’m afraid. New guidance this week is that if we get contacted by the app, we are categorically NOT to self isolate. Further investigation will be carried out to find out where the contact was. If it was a supermarket/shop etc we are told to ignore the app.

Hailtomyteeth Sun 22-Nov-20 05:58:12

@noblegiraffe. I believe you. So much so that I am becoming concerned for your welfare. Speaking the truth doesn't always make people popular with those in authority.

LadyPenelope68 Sun 22-Nov-20 06:06:14

@noblegiraffe I’m a teacher and becoming more and more concerned for my welfare and the absolute lack of care this Government are showing towards education staff, it just makes no sense whatsoever. Why are we being treated so differently. I’m clinically vulnerable yet nothing is being done to make me safe, I need to leave but can’t for financial reasons, I’m totally stuck 😢😢

MintGreen Sun 22-Nov-20 06:15:58

It's scandalous.

DH is a teacher and I'm sure the stress is going to break him. Two of the students he teaches were confirmed positive this week (six in school overall at the moment although the number of asymptomatic cases is likely much higher) and despite the fact that his classroom has all its windows painted shut and it's physically impossible to distance because it's too small for the 33 kids crammed in there, and they're not allowed to wear masks - he doesn't need to isolate. Schools are safe you see.

Fishes45 Sun 22-Nov-20 06:22:59

@LadyPenelope68 we were told this earlier this week. Excellent headteacher with an amazing approach to all things including COVID. Advice given by PHE or DfE.

PineappleUpsideDownCake Sun 22-Nov-20 06:28:34

It really really is shocking and wrong. And incredible to see how blind people are to it all.

parrotonthesofa Sun 22-Nov-20 06:34:51

I just cannot understand why it is not compulsory mask wearing for teachers and kids at all times in secondary schools. I live abroad and this has been the case since May.

LadyPenelope68 Sun 22-Nov-20 06:39:21

@Fishes45
we were told this earlier this week. Excellent headteacher with an amazing approach to all things including COVID. Advice given by PHE or DfE
Utter madness!! Glad you have an excellent Headteacher, ours is utterly useless and totally unsupportive in relation to anything COVID related.

MyOtherProfile Sun 22-Nov-20 06:48:39

I sympathise with some of your OP but some of it isn't my experience at all.

1. I'm in a low incidence area and yet we have some schools round here that have closed due to positive covid tests

2. Schools I work with, including my children's school, insist on masks around the school at least, even if not in the classroom.

3, 5, 8 and 9. I know several pupils who have had tests. I've seen letters from our school plus templates that have gone from the LA to schools outlining when pupils should test.

4 and 16. Loads of teachers are self isolating. I'm hearing of it all the time, again in my kids school but also in schools I contact for my job

I don't think the government are the intentionally encouraging spread (and I'm the last person to defend this load of malevolents) but Indo think they consistently pick the route that most meets their own ends - in this case keeping kids out of the way so parents can work / perhaps actually a little of trying to keep kids MH up (not working in my experience) and keep their education going.

Bumpinthenight Sun 22-Nov-20 06:57:55

We've been told to switch the app off in our primary school. We were sent a poster to say that school is covid secure...

We can't maintain a distance from the children because the classroom is too small.
In order to stay 2m from another adult we have to get closer to the kids.
Kids aren't covid secure and can't/won't wash their hands properly!
Masks in classrooms/corridors are 'not needed'.
No social distancing between children in the classroom (no room).
No social distancing between the children at playtime.
Windows and doors are open though.

I would suggest that it is flying through secondary schools because there are more bubbles and PHE seem to only suggest the closest pupils on the seating plan are sent home. Also, secondary pupils mix more moving between sets; on the bus; walking home; in the toilets; and at dinner time (to name a few).
In our school we are only allowed to be in our bubble (of 30). We eat in the classroom and have separate zones to play in outside. This reduces the spread to our bubble only. It isn't in school (yet) so I don't know what PHE will suggest when there is a positive case in our school.

Of course the virus is going to be spread if large groups of people are allowed to mix for a lengthy period of time. Not so long ago it was the 18-30 age group that was being blamed for the spread. Pubs are shut so now it has shifted to secondary aged. I can imagine that primary schools will be next on the spreading blame list if secondaries move into a week in school, a week off.
Where else atm is allowing large groups of people congregate?

noblegiraffe Sun 22-Nov-20 07:46:36

masks in corridors and inside spaces other than during lessons has always been compulsory at their school but I thought this had been introduced everywhere now?

It's compulsory everywhere now because we're all areas of local lockdown. It's possible that when the lockdown ends, so will the mask mandate (more likely they'll forget about it).

OP’s posts: |
noblegiraffe Sun 22-Nov-20 07:50:05

I should clarify, this list isn't entirely put together by me but copied from another thread. Number 9 was another poster, they might need to clarify.

I agree that threatening to fine parents in ECV families who don't think schools are safe to attend is despicable.

OP’s posts: |
thenewaveragebear1983 Sun 22-Nov-20 07:51:13

Thanks @noblegiraffe for this thread (and your other one) thanks

SansaSnark Sun 22-Nov-20 07:52:00

I do think turning off the app has been down to individual head teachers only. At my school, teachers have isolated because of the app and it has not been questioned. We have not been told to turn off the app in school.

I think some heads are not handling this well and making an unsafe situation even more unsafe. I do think the government is largely to blame - especially WRT Hull, and they are allowing a culture where heads can behave really badly.

However I do think some of these issues are down to individual heads.

That said, keeping schools open as is, is clearly an insane decision, and I can't understand the reasoning behind it.

monkeytennis97 Sun 22-Nov-20 07:55:27

Thank you @noblegiraffe for the thread. COME ON JOURNALISTS, WAKE UP!

noblegiraffe Sun 22-Nov-20 07:59:56

I do think turning off the app has been down to individual head teachers only. At my school, teachers have isolated because of the app and it has not been questioned. We have not been told to turn off the app in school

This usually comes up when a group of teachers are pinged by the app due to a positive case in, say, science, and the alternative is the whole science department off for a fortnight when they should have been social distancing.

OP’s posts: |
thenewaveragebear1983 Sun 22-Nov-20 08:07:51

I can comment/clarify that re: 9, if a parent chooses to isolate their child without being told to (eg either because of bubble closure, or track and trace) or for example if they live with someone ECV and are concerned but aren't ECV themselves they are marked as O which is unauthorised absence. Whether they would actually be fined I don't know as I don't know how frequently that actually happens (fines)

Join the discussion

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

Join Mumsnet

Already have a Mumsnet account? Log in