Secondary schools are totally stuffed, WELL-RESPECTED SCIENTISTS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

I don't normally get asked for an encore, more usually 'urgh, not another bloody thread', but per a request we have a follow-up to the resoundingly popular:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4078722-Secondary-schools-are-fucked-BOFFINS-ADMIT

Feedback has been received and acted upon re the title so hopefully that will temper the urge to complain.

Quick round-up of where we were at:

1. the infection rate is now highest in secondary school pupils in Y7-11, higher than uni students and sixth formers. They're not catching it at the pub...

2. The government/ONS put out misleading figures to suggest that teachers weren't at higher risk than NHS frontline workers, where actually looking at the data, they may well be. They fudged this by calling the largest group of teachers, who are at higher risk than frontline NHS staff 'teachers of an unknown type' and pretended they were irrelevant.

3. The DfE have changed the format of their attendance statistics report to remove the reference to how many hundreds of thousands of kids are currently isolating due to exposure to covid at school.

4. Boffins are cool

New info: The Guardian reports that teachers are being instructed to ignore app notifications to self-isolate by the school helpline and this might be a bad thing. They can't help themselves though, and have a lovely photo of a socially distanced classroom of lies at the top of the story.

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/nov/16/union-says-teachers-in-england-being-told-to-pause-covid-app-in-school

'What I don't get is the mask wearing. Cheap, effective. And still no.'

I know - its utterly the most maddening, frustrating thing, every single simulation shows how dramatically the risks fall when people in enclosed spaces wear a mask.

Half term wasn't a circuit breaker because people could still go out and about ? I would have thought a circuit breaker would mean that for at least 2 weeks people didnt go out?

I don’t know if secondary schools will make it to December 2nd given the drastic increase in numbers affected in the last 7 days.

No one is reporting staff absence due to covid.

@NullcovoidNovember

sansa , some places managed to support their vulnerable learners and it was the best thing for them to be safe at home but learning as per the timetable on line .

many dc also feel extremely vulnerable being forced to go in - like useless cattle was how one dc described it.

By vulnerable, I mean children who are by definition not safe at home- not clinically vulnerable.

I know students feel vulnerable being forced to go in, and I agree that it should be a free choice if they want to attend or not. I equally teach students who are terrified of taking it home to a parent.

All I'm saying is that isolating at the drop of a hat is really difficult for some children and parents and to come on and say "oh my kid was fine" is honestly fucking insensitive.

@Mominatrix

"To work, there would also need to be no socialising/childcare out of school, which obviously didn't happen over half term."

Why not? I did not let my children socialise over the half term.

Since this appears to need spelling out, it's not all about you.

yes its not black and white either way and I would by prefer a blended learning situation where they go into vastly less full schools, and learn on line the other days. best of all worlds in an impossible situation and also less stress for the teachers who can be safe at home for a few days.

I’d just like to point out that most of the businesses that are shut could be open if we moved to blended learning in schools.

SAGE data shows that schools moving to blended (vulnerable pupils and SEN kids in FT and everyone else on rolling) would make the biggest difference to the R rate.

So it has come down to businesses or schools.

@BelleSausage

I’d just like to point out that most of the businesses that are shut could be open if we moved to blended learning in schools.

SAGE data shows that schools moving to blended (vulnerable pupils and SEN kids in FT and everyone else on rolling) would make the biggest difference to the R rate.

So it has come down to businesses or schools.

Yes- these businesses were open over the summer, and I know there's other factors involved (e.g. weather, more socialising indoors) but at some point someone needs to ask if actually, we are prioritising the right thing here.

A lot of people I know (mid-twenties to early thirties) are increasingly financially fucked. They don't have kids or school aged kids and some of them are questioning why schools are open (seemingly) at the expense of the economy/their livelihoods.

I don't agree with this view, BTW, but I do think that perhaps we need to be looking at compromise solutions.

It's pretty mild where I am (and Hull's temperature range is also mild - I just checked) BUT it is still colder inside most of our classrooms than the outside temperature, with windows open (for whomever was asking.)

Kids in deprived areas are suffering more damage to their education. But I don’t hear anyone clamouring to help them this time. Strange that.’

Yes this exactly. Funny how everyone couldn’t get enough of the ‘vulnerable’ kids when they wanted schools to reopen to ‘all’. Now it seems they don’t matter again (as pre covid) as they don’t suit their agenda anymore.

‘Kids deserve an education and to be in school’

‘What about the thousands of kids off school in Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester?’

‘Oh, not those kids. That’s just a local issue.’

@Mominatrix

I am confused Chloe - is being in school better than being out of school? I thought this thread was principally for people who were upset that schools were still open?

Poor comprehension skills again.

And Hull!!!

blended learning is the perfect compromise.

@BelleSausage

I’d just like to point out that most of the businesses that are shut could be open if we moved to blended learning in schools.

SAGE data shows that schools moving to blended (vulnerable pupils and SEN kids in FT and everyone else on rolling) would make the biggest difference to the R rate.

So it has come down to businesses or schools.

I'd support this 100%

@Danglingmod

And Hull!!!

Oh I was paraphrasing a conversation I had weeks ago on here. People didn’t give a shit about Birmingham so they definitely won’t give a shit about Hull.

@noblegiraffe

I don’t know if secondary schools will make it to December 2nd given the drastic increase in numbers affected in the last 7 days.

No one is reporting staff absence due to covid.

Many Sen schools haven't made it this far.

How many SEN schools are closed?

@starrynight19

Kids in deprived areas are suffering more damage to their education. But I don’t hear anyone clamouring to help them this time. Strange that.’

Yes this exactly. Funny how everyone couldn’t get enough of the ‘vulnerable’ kids when they wanted schools to reopen to ‘all’. Now it seems they don’t matter again (as pre covid) as they don’t suit their agenda anymore.

Totally agree with you. It’s interesting to look back on threads from April and May where posted have voiced concern for these children. Where are these posters now? Covid has brought out so much selfishness in some people who aren’t willing to consider what other people are going through. These vulnerable children could be more at risk now if they have to isolate when their bubble bursts. At least they could come to school during lockdown 1 and if the parents weren’t sending them in then in staff were doing welfare visits to their homes in person. We’re not allowed to do this if the child is isolating so can only phone. Parents don’t always want to pick up the phone to school though.

All I'm saying is that isolating at the drop of a hat is really difficult for some children and parents and to come on and say "oh my kid was fine" is honestly fucking insensitive.

This. Honesty, some people seem to really need the situation to come along and slap them hard on the arse before they realise that we all need a fair amount of reliable, solid time in school.

Haha. I think I picked up on that, Noble. All deprived areas. And Hull doesn't even have the sexiness of a former govt minister as its Mayor.

Every time there have been cases in our local SEN schools, they've closed fully. I assume that's because the staff are inevitably crossing all the classes and are definitely unable to sd from the students.

@BelleSausage

I’d just like to point out that most of the businesses that are shut could be open if we moved to blended learning in schools.

SAGE data shows that schools moving to blended (vulnerable pupils and SEN kids in FT and everyone else on rolling) would make the biggest difference to the R rate.

So it has come down to businesses or schools.

Yep. I would imagine businesses will start to get really pissed off if they are made to continue with this ‘lockdown’ which is ineffective because schools are remaining open.

Where at these straw men teachers who want schools closed?

I wish people would stop resorting to lies and false aspersions.

I will say again that my life as a secondary teacher and parent to a teen is easier if schools are open.

Why pretend people advocating for better protections for students and staff in schools ergo for the whole community must want schools closed?

Personally I am part time and live a 10minute walk from school. I'm in school three days a week and working at home for much of the other 2 whilst ds is in school.

Wanting schools to be safer and acknowledging some students are getting a massively raw deal with having to isolate repeatedly doesn't = shut all schools.

These straw man tactics create a false impression that the option is carry on exactly as we are despite the facts or close down schools.

But why should some get a raw deal? None of them should.

Masks or blended learning would make no one get a raw deal.

@NullcovoidNovember
Sorry, don't know if this came up previously: are you a teacher?