Secondary schools are totally stuffed, WELL-RESPECTED SCIENTISTS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

I don't normally get asked for an encore, more usually 'urgh, not another bloody thread', but per a request we have a follow-up to the resoundingly popular:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4078722-Secondary-schools-are-fucked-BOFFINS-ADMIT

Feedback has been received and acted upon re the title so hopefully that will temper the urge to complain.

Quick round-up of where we were at:

1. the infection rate is now highest in secondary school pupils in Y7-11, higher than uni students and sixth formers. They're not catching it at the pub...

2. The government/ONS put out misleading figures to suggest that teachers weren't at higher risk than NHS frontline workers, where actually looking at the data, they may well be. They fudged this by calling the largest group of teachers, who are at higher risk than frontline NHS staff 'teachers of an unknown type' and pretended they were irrelevant.

3. The DfE have changed the format of their attendance statistics report to remove the reference to how many hundreds of thousands of kids are currently isolating due to exposure to covid at school.

4. Boffins are cool

New info: The Guardian reports that teachers are being instructed to ignore app notifications to self-isolate by the school helpline and this might be a bad thing. They can't help themselves though, and have a lovely photo of a socially distanced classroom of lies at the top of the story.

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/nov/16/union-says-teachers-in-england-being-told-to-pause-covid-app-in-school

@monkeytennis97

I do worry though that the msm will spin it and the result will be more pressure on Heads to isolate even less kids...

This worries me too.

Long term it is not a good strategy- it will lead to Covid being endemic in more schools.

I think all we can do is whistleblow on social media when we know something dodgy has gone on. Hopefully if enough people do, it will get some notice.

@noblegiraffe

I’m guessing private schools who can afford their own testing also enjoy smaller classes and more compliant kids.

We're private as well. More compliance is not really true. Many are entitled a**holes. There are some nice people too :)

@Mominatrix

Not really. He was in the classroom via video, and sent his comments vis e-mail the the teacher, who then got in contact with him to comment. Also, some of the video lessons were interactive and there was even an online debate. So no, he was not severely impacted.

I am doing that currently. My pupils are in the classroom and I am via video link at home. I repeat that his education has been impacted. Email is not immediate informative feedback and it is not frequent, as it would be in the lesson. Online debates are a substitute but not better than the real thing.

‘Kids in deprived areas are suffering more damage to their education. But I don’t hear anyone clamouring to help them this time. Strange that.’

Wow!!!!👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼Fantastic comment!🙌🙌🙌

I agree with you Belle that the children I am least concerned with are children like mine who are just fine. Their schools are well equipped to handle missing children via video link and were able to provide a great education even in Lockdown I.

This patched up hybrid solution was probably thought up with their interests in mind and the children who are most damaged by missing school are those in less wealthy neighbourhoods with families who cannot provide the tech to allow for an adequate off site education. What is a better, doable solution?

In terms of a circuit breaker lockdown of schools - was that not what half term was?

I am confused Chloe - is being in school better than being out of school? I thought this thread was principally for people who were upset that schools were still open?

Keeping schools open until they can't seems to be what is going on. What is a better option for all?

Money being put into schools for better mitigation measures. Masks. Ventilation. Mass testing.

Why is it that posters can only see schools open or closed as the only options?

Suggesting that schools are open because of education in lockdown one (the DfE issued no standards for education) doesn’t explain why the government refuses to put any money into them to make them safer.

Instead it is doing its best to suppress, fudge or ignore the data.

First item on the news if anyone is interested in what's going on in The North.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000pnlm/look-north-yorkshire-evening-news-17112020

But it's all fine. Schools are open.

I thought this thread was principally for people who were upset that schools were still open?

Ffs every single time.

"Instead it is doing its best to suppress, fudge or ignore the data."

Did you not demand that I retract my statement about falsified data?

In terms of a circuit breaker lockdown of schools - was that not what half term was?

No, funnily enough, everything else remained open at that time, didn't it! The opportunity was missed!

However, it did give people a good excuse not to bother with a test if their children did have any symptoms, so the numbers tested did fall.

@Mominatrix
Lockdown II is trying to make up for that by having schools be open as long as they can to prevent further slide in education for the most vulnerable and those children in crux years.

If that statement was true then schools would have had the chance to assess on individual level which kids need to be onsite and who are capable/have the family backing to work online. Thus we would not be having this convo as there would be about 1/3 of the kids in school buildings. They could distance, maybe even wear masks.

But the reality is that because of a minority of kids all of them + their families have to suffer unnecessarily.

I'm all for blended/hybrid and even full online school, everyone here probs knows that. But even I would be already extremely happy with masks and half class sizes.

schools also need to make sure they are pulling out every stop, not all teachers are opening windows and also many schools are insisting on rigid uniform adherence.

some places are leaving it to other staff to police masks etc.

masks should be worn in class - each pupil should be issued or asked to have at least 3 masks on a school day = they wear disposable masks all day - yuk.

what has the weather in hull been like? down south is warm still.

As I've said on previous threads, there are kids I teach who are terrified of being stuck at home for two weeks (with good reason).

It's all very well for affluent parents to view it as "fine" but it is not fine for all children.

In the first lockdown, when schools "closed", vulnerable, SEN and keyworker children could still go to school. Now, when schools are closing, they are closed- yes, maybe for a shorter period, but nonetheless closed. That has all sorts of societal impacts.

0.3% of schools is a huge number to be closed.

The DfE figures have been updated, and we can see the number of children affected is increasing: explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/attendance-in-education-and-early-years-settings-during-the-coronavirus-covid-19-outbreak

@Mominatrix

"Instead it is doing its best to suppress, fudge or ignore the data."

Did you not demand that I retract my statement about falsified data?

Yes, because fudging data is not falsifying it. It is presenting it in a way that does not tell the true story.

The government is definitely doing the first.

The sun, the flip side is - many dc who have anxiety and many other issues actually blossomed at home during lock down.

what we cannot have is a situation where the rope is simply dropped and dc are left with nothing.

One week doesn't constitute a circuit breaker for a virus that can have an incubation period of up to 14 days.

To work, there would also need to be no socialising/childcare out of school, which obviously didn't happen over half term.

"Money being put into schools for better mitigation measures. Masks. Ventilation. Mass testing."

What are better mitigation measure which can be implemented immediately?

Maks - easily done. Children need to have masks in common spaces by government guidelines - schools just need to make them wear them in classes also.

Ventilation - how will government money quickly provide this?

Mass testing - how often and whom?

sansa , some places managed to support their vulnerable learners and it was the best thing for them to be safe at home but learning as per the timetable on line .

many dc also feel extremely vulnerable being forced to go in - like useless cattle was how one dc described it.

"To work, there would also need to be no socialising/childcare out of school, which obviously didn't happen over half term."

Why not? I did not let my children socialise over the half term.

schools just need to make them wear them in classes also.

No, the government need to mandate this so that heads don’t get called child abusers when they attempt to implement it, or be threatened with legal action by Us4Them for going against government guidance that their use should be avoided in classrooms.

Ventilation - how will government money quickly provide this?

Ask Germany, it’s what they’ve done.

Mass testing - how often and whom?

At least when there is a positive case in a school the whole bubble should be tested, by the mobile testing units schools were told would be available in September.

@NullcovoidNovember

sansa , some places managed to support their vulnerable learners and it was the best thing for them to be safe at home but learning as per the timetable on line .

many dc also feel extremely vulnerable being forced to go in - like useless cattle was how one dc described it.

My son compared the kids to cows being led to the slaughterhouse... Highly dramatic 15 yr old (as of today :)) who just read Vonnegut a month before ...

@NullcovoidNovember
I agree. I think a framework (yes that means money too) is needed and then local decisions. Teachers know the kids they teach. Gov sees numbers. It is quite different.
What I don't get is the mask wearing. Cheap, effective. And still no.

"One week doesn't constitute a circuit breaker for a virus that can have an incubation period of up to 14 days."

It may well make some difference given

Some schools did have a 2 week half term
the average incubation period is 5 days
Unless the childcare arrangements mean mixing with between 200 and a 1000 ( e.g in corridors ) people a day the rate of transmission in school age kids might reasonably be expected to drop...

All the people saying but my business is affected, my kids need to be in school etc etc don't get it. It is in everyone's interest to get the transmission of Covid within schools under control.

If we could drastically reduce transmission within schools it will lower community transmission. That will lead to fewer restrictions, meaning people will be able to go to shops/restaurants/gyms etc. Kids do need to be in school, which is why this awful in/out hokey-cokey system at the moment is not doing them any favours.

@Barbie222

In terms of a circuit breaker lockdown of schools - was that not what half term was?

No, funnily enough, everything else remained open at that time, didn't it! The opportunity was missed!

However, it did give people a good excuse not to bother with a test if their children did have any symptoms, so the numbers tested did fall.

The opportunity was missed.

Just imagine a situation where parents expect to come out of lockdown on the 2nd of Dec only to find that we have schools locked down. Its looking increasingly likely. In fact it was always likely because the government have failed to invest, finance, guide, regulate and support schools to be open with good mitigation of risk.