Secondary schools are fucked, BOFFINS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

Latest ONS random sampling data shows that secondary school children in Y7-11 are now the age group with the highest infection rate in England, overtaking sixth form and university students.

In Wales "Schoolchildren are more likely to catch and spread coronavirus than previously thought, experts have warned... It was also discovered that while children were far more likely to be asymptomatic and not become seriously unwell, they were more likely to be the first positive case in any household."

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/schoolchildren-more-likely-catch-spread-19275959?fbclid=IwAR0kpoikv0D_nkwHx3lVyQX_cyDj6Ycy1d6gE3aRx6syxUKzFQsYzMDSqPw

English boffins are a bit slower on the uptake though
"SAGE’s report found that prevalence of Covid-19 in school-age children had “risen significantly” in the first wave, and that the rise in prevalence was “first visible around the time that schools reopened”.

However, it said that while this “may be indicative of a potential role for school opening, causation, including the extent to which transmission is occurring in schools, is unproven and difficult to establish”.

schoolsweek.co.uk/child-infection-rate-rise-began-when-schools-reopened-but-direct-link-unproven-says-sage/

It must indeed be difficult to establish whether there's transmission in a high risk environment where kids are packed in like sardines with no mitigation measures. A real head-scratcher. Especially if you spent the whole summer insisting that it would be fine because the kids are facing forward.

What do we want? Well, one of the major teaching unions has called on the government to:

1. Demonstrate that they are following the scientific evidence and advice.
2. Strengthen the guidance to schools and colleges on ensuring COVID-safe and COVID-secure working practices.
3. Secure the updating and publication of health and safety risk assessments and equality impact assessments by school and college employers.
4. Publish weekly data on positive cases of COVID-19 infections of school/college staff and pupils by local government area
5. Ramp up inspection and enforcement measures in schools and colleges, including more comprehensive use of spot checks and visits by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE).
6. Take swift action to protect public health in the event of an outbreak.
7. Protect vulnerable teachers and support staff and pupils.
8. Strengthen the guidance to insist on effective social distancing in schools/colleges.
9. Establish a national plan for remote education/blended and distance learning.

10. Provide significant additional financial support for schools and colleges urgently to ensure the safety of staff and pupils, including extra funding for cleaning, personal protective equipment (PPE) and supply teachers

www.nasuwt.org.uk/article-listing/plan-to-keep-schools-safe-during-pandemic.html

Oh OP I knew this would be you yadayada...yeah that's why I chose the same thread title as before etc etc.

Why do we need another thread blah blah: it's because secondary school kids are now infected at the highest rates in the country. This has implications for lockdown. How effective will it be if the most infected subset of the population are mixing freely? And it's also the first hint from scientists that they might have been wrong about exactly how safe schools are. There's also a strong suggestion that kids are bringing the virus home from school which parents should be aware of.

It's also causing chaos in schools, but there's another thread about that.

@howaboutholly

Problem is, as we can see from this thread, it doesn’t really do anything, does it? Just rows and rows and more rows and mud slinging and I know best no I know best no I know best.

I don’t think there is a solution here. And repeatedly posting what is effectively the same thread week after week after week does understandably cause people to think there is an agenda.

here, you know as well as I do that most of the supporters here are from the long running threads in the staff room.

I don't frequent the staff room (is that a teacher's board??? ) as I'm not a teacher. I am a very very angry parent

I would rather hear from school staff who are in the midst of this, than some overpaid, unqualified bloke who might occasionally walk into a classroom for a bit of publicity.

We also have a media black out for schools locally as well.

@SunShinesStill

I find it bonkers, that when they’ve shown a room will be aerosolised and infect everyone, that they’ve only sending people home within 2m not the whole class. Also 2m for 15mins is bullshit. It takes one hug, 1min sharing a car etc.

Has anyone seen what’s happening in France and italy?

They have their heads in the sand or think it will be different here for some reason. You would after the first wave they would have learned.

Given that my thread is number one on trending, holly, I don't think people will have any trouble in finding it. Or knowing that it's one of mine.

The thing is that yes, we have been posting the same things week after week since March.
And yet only now are the "experts" suddenly seeing happening what we predicted would happen. Us who work in schools who actually have an idea of the conditions in schools. And us who are educated in science, and maths, and statistics, and understand exponential growth etc.
Who knew, eh?

I think people know things aren’t fine, but this is probably a problem that’s impossible to solve. Because let’s be frank, if their own kids are fine, which is true for the majority, parents will send them to school.

So what’s the alternative? I don’t think there is one. Not one that’s workable, anyway.

Still won’t change anything why

Can I just thank all the us 4 them bots please, I feel so much better now

Has anyone seen what’s happening in France and italy?

I saw that teachers in France went on strike due to unsafe working conditions.

"The education ministry has sought to allay concerns by allowing secondary schools to offer more online teaching, on the condition that pupils take at least 50 percent of classes at school."

www.france24.com/en/france/20201110-french-teachers-strike-over-covid-19-risks-in-crowded-classrooms

People who argue against safer schools for teachers should be aware that they're pushing things towards closures and blended learning.

“I think a lot of the denial is from people who have trouble reconciling data with real life experiences especially when that goes against what they really want to believe. Cognitive dissonance.
If I say it's fiiiiiinnne in schools enough times, it must be true. And as nothing has happened to me or mine (yet) I must be right....
Wider picture people!!“

It is difficult, given that a lot of the “everything is fine, your children are safe, you should send them in, we’re so happy to be back” propaganda comes from... teachers. No doubt “putting their teacher face on”, doing their job, toeing the party line etc but still, it is quite hard to reconcile that with what teachers then report on here.

So what’s the alternative? I don’t think there is one. Not one that’s workable, anyway.

Oh where's your can do attitude?

I just would like the UK (or England) to follow the WHO guidance.for schools.

How many of them are ill?

as opposed to having a positive test

*In any event, Dr Jenny Harries has been very clear that COVID is not spread in classrooms in any significant way.

The big risk in schools is teachers meeting at coffee breaks and lunches in staffrooms and not socially distancing.*

Of course it is. Because COVID can tell the difference between break time and period 2, and cleverly swerves the 32 teenagers to get to the teacher in the closed (or in the case of my school) non existent staffroom.

Sounds a lot like you're advocating for strike action, OP?

There isn’t a solution giraffe

Either

Schools are closed - and you don’t need me to go through why that’s a scenario the government are avoiding at all costs.

Or

They are not

Blended learning is largely meaningless. For all it’s claimed here that teachers were working 23 hour days throughout lockdown, there were still a lot of parents getting one worksheet a week type lessons. Plus, teacher input is needed. Again, you know this.

Sometimes, there is no solution.

@howaboutholly

I think people know things aren’t fine, but this is probably a problem that’s impossible to solve. Because let’s be frank, if their own kids are fine, which is true for the majority, parents will send them to school.

So what’s the alternative? I don’t think there is one. Not one that’s workable, anyway.

Even if their children are fine the implications affect the entire country as we see with the nationwide current lockdown. If you are happy to be in this perpetual state of on/off lockdown until a vaccine is in place then I suppose the secondary school problems doesn't bother you. I would prefer the approach of limiting transmission in schools to avoid haphazard closures.

Can do attitude lol.

i would love to buy you a drink some time noble when this is all over.

Or they are made safer Holly

Are you really that lacking in imagination?

No one thought schools would be safe. Just safer than mass mental illness.

@howaboutholly

There isn’t a solution giraffe

Either

Schools are closed - and you don’t need me to go through why that’s a scenario the government are avoiding at all costs.

Or

They are not

Blended learning is largely meaningless. For all it’s claimed here that teachers were working 23 hour days throughout lockdown, there were still a lot of parents getting one worksheet a week type lessons. Plus, teacher input is needed. Again, you know this.

Sometimes, there is no solution.

Blended learning is NOT what happened in lockdown. We are talking about week in / week out. Or 2 days in 2 days out. Work is set and chased up on immediately. Not the same at all as lockdown 1 when we were not allowed to chase work.