Secondary schools are fucked, BOFFINS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

Latest ONS random sampling data shows that secondary school children in Y7-11 are now the age group with the highest infection rate in England, overtaking sixth form and university students.

In Wales "Schoolchildren are more likely to catch and spread coronavirus than previously thought, experts have warned... It was also discovered that while children were far more likely to be asymptomatic and not become seriously unwell, they were more likely to be the first positive case in any household."

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/schoolchildren-more-likely-catch-spread-19275959?fbclid=IwAR0kpoikv0D_nkwHx3lVyQX_cyDj6Ycy1d6gE3aRx6syxUKzFQsYzMDSqPw

English boffins are a bit slower on the uptake though
"SAGE’s report found that prevalence of Covid-19 in school-age children had “risen significantly” in the first wave, and that the rise in prevalence was “first visible around the time that schools reopened”.

However, it said that while this “may be indicative of a potential role for school opening, causation, including the extent to which transmission is occurring in schools, is unproven and difficult to establish”.

schoolsweek.co.uk/child-infection-rate-rise-began-when-schools-reopened-but-direct-link-unproven-says-sage/

It must indeed be difficult to establish whether there's transmission in a high risk environment where kids are packed in like sardines with no mitigation measures. A real head-scratcher. Especially if you spent the whole summer insisting that it would be fine because the kids are facing forward.

What do we want? Well, one of the major teaching unions has called on the government to:

1. Demonstrate that they are following the scientific evidence and advice.
2. Strengthen the guidance to schools and colleges on ensuring COVID-safe and COVID-secure working practices.
3. Secure the updating and publication of health and safety risk assessments and equality impact assessments by school and college employers.
4. Publish weekly data on positive cases of COVID-19 infections of school/college staff and pupils by local government area
5. Ramp up inspection and enforcement measures in schools and colleges, including more comprehensive use of spot checks and visits by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE).
6. Take swift action to protect public health in the event of an outbreak.
7. Protect vulnerable teachers and support staff and pupils.
8. Strengthen the guidance to insist on effective social distancing in schools/colleges.
9. Establish a national plan for remote education/blended and distance learning.

10. Provide significant additional financial support for schools and colleges urgently to ensure the safety of staff and pupils, including extra funding for cleaning, personal protective equipment (PPE) and supply teachers

www.nasuwt.org.uk/article-listing/plan-to-keep-schools-safe-during-pandemic.html

Oh OP I knew this would be you yadayada...yeah that's why I chose the same thread title as before etc etc.

Why do we need another thread blah blah: it's because secondary school kids are now infected at the highest rates in the country. This has implications for lockdown. How effective will it be if the most infected subset of the population are mixing freely? And it's also the first hint from scientists that they might have been wrong about exactly how safe schools are. There's also a strong suggestion that kids are bringing the virus home from school which parents should be aware of.

It's also causing chaos in schools, but there's another thread about that.

And how about being heartless towards the kids for whom school is a sanctuary? Away from abuse, where they can stay warm and fed?

Oh wait I forgot. You're only vulnerable if you're vulnerable to covid. Silly me.

@mrshoho

We said this all along. How these boffins can be surprised I just don't know. Another couple of weeks and cases and R will be rising again. Our blinkered government is still insisting GCSE's will go ahead as if there is nothing to worry about.

I cant understand the insistence that GCSE’s are going ahead. Surely there’ll be uproar nearer the time when it’s obvious isolating kids haven’t fully covered the syllabus??

The problem is giraffe reports on the staff room she’s posted, so gets cheerleaders on the thread immediately. I’m not sure there is a workable solution here, tbh.

@monkeytennis97

I have argued for blended learning too.

@WhyNotMe40 I've had the same. Kids looking up at me with a scared look when someone starts coughing behind them.

That’s because paranoid parents who put the fear of god into their kids over someone who coughs! I know a 13 year old who is too scared to go out and refuses to touch door handles! This behaviour is learnt from parents who have passed on their fear and anxiety. We are heading for a future of kids with mass health anxieties. Kids need to be in school and not wearing bloody masks! Stop fucking up these years for them.

@howaboutholly

The problem is giraffe reports on the staff room she’s posted, so gets cheerleaders on the thread immediately. I’m not sure there is a workable solution here, tbh.

don't understand the staff room bit. But noble generally makes a lot of sense

In Wales "Schoolchildren are more likely to catch and spread coronavirus than previously thought, experts have warned

Only than previously thought by these "experts". Everyone else knew they were just as likely as anyone else, if not more so in the school scenario, just as they are always the first to catch and spread all the other nasties at school.

And to be fair to the people demanding that they ‘find where giraffe has said schools should close’ its a bit disingenuous, isn’t it?

Or are you seriously suggesting there isn’t an agenda?

God all the ghouls crawl out of the woodwork don't they. The WHO is recommending masks for over 12s for Godssake.

@Whyisitsodifficult or maybe because they've seen COVID at work in their families and communities and have seen what it can do?

Because the OP cannot, ever, provide a credible, realistic alternative to schools either being open or closed. This country voted in this utter shitshow of a government, who won't throw any more money at education. I don't think anyone can argue with that.

Therefore, there is no alternative to being either open or closed (and IMO, blended learning may as well mean closed)

So if the OP is not happy with schools opening as they are (which she isnt) then I can only conclude she wants them to be shut.

@Juststopswimming

And how about being heartless towards the kids for whom school is a sanctuary? Away from abuse, where they can stay warm and fed?

Oh wait I forgot. You're only vulnerable if you're vulnerable to covid. Silly me.

OK, so pre-Covid, what steps did you take to help vulnerable kids? Do you really think that teachers are not acutely aware of their needs and have been working tirelessly for them for years, long before Covid reared its ugly head?

It’s weird how I have persistently and consistently argued for better mitigation measures in schools to keep them open but the haterz insist I really want to close them.

It’s like they want to have a go at me but can’t actually argue with the point I’m making so pretend I’m making a different point that they can then slate me for.

In some countries masks from 6 years old and blended learning in secondary are the norm. Don’t see why the UK has to think that the virus behaves differently here.

@Whyisitsodifficult 'not wearing fucking masks'

Because the OP cannot, ever, provide a credible, realistic alternative to schools either being open or closed.

I had a whole thread about that.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4059472-Ways-to-make-schools-safer-without-closing-them

@Juststopswimming

I absolutely knew who had started this thread before even reading it

Well you don't have to read it then do you? you could...go away. And then... go a bit further away. And then... go even further away. Until you come round back here again. And then go away some more. (Polite version)

I don’t disagree that schools should be better funded and sensible measures should be taken, albeit I’m a primary parent. I’d completely support parents being allowed to withdraw their children. I have written to my mp, I’ve donated time and money to my children’s school, I’ve tried to be supportive of their teachers, I follow the ever more theatrical but probably pointless school rules without a murmur, I have tried very hard to minimise our exposure outside of school and I test when my children are ill. I’d just like to know what more you expect parents/anybody to do about it.

There’s a lot of these threads. It’s been obvious for a long time older children can spread it. It’s also very obvious that the vast majority of parents think the risk is worth it, otherwise I assume they’d have pulled their child out. I’m certainly not pulling my children out while school continues, we are all very low risk. Since you clearly aren’t going to get the equivalent of a union of parents pulling their children out en masse, I guess if teachers are really that convinced it is so dangerous there is an obvious answer to force the government’s hand - stop facilitating it.

"Haterz"?!?! I really hope you never teach my children

"Because the OP cannot, ever, provide a credible, realistic alternative to schools either being open or closed."

So you didn't even read the opening post on this thread then? Where she listed around 10 actions that could be taken to ensure schools remain open and that Covid spread by schoolchildren is minimised?

That’s because paranoid parents who put the fear of god into their kids over someone who coughs! I know a 13 year old who is too scared to go out and refuses to touch door handles! This behaviour is learnt from parents who have passed on their fear and anxiety. We are heading for a future of kids with mass health anxieties. Kids need to be in school and not wearing bloody masks! Stop fucking up these years for them

Do you not believe that teenagers are capable of their own thought processes and opinions? Maybe they are genuinely concerned for the health of people they live with. You do know that lots of children are young carers to adults with health problems, yes?
I think you are being hyperbolic suggesting that wearing a cloth mask and having blended learning will "fuck up these years".
We are unusual in this country with the amount of hours we expect teenagers to attend school for. Doing some work at home on some days won't harm them, especially if it is going to be chased up the next week by their teacher, and enforced like homework is enforced.
You are being what some would term "hysterical"

@Juststopswimming

It is quite a lot more complex than that. And if you had read @noblegiraffe‘s post you would have understood that her point is to make schools safer so more kids can stay in school for longer and keep learning.

There is quite a lot more than can be done to keep schools open.

@Juststopswimming

"Haterz"?!?! I really hope you never teach my children

Is that the best you can do?

@Juststopswimming

Because the OP cannot, ever, provide a credible, realistic alternative to schools either being open or closed. This country voted in this utter shitshow of a government, who won't throw any more money at education. I don't think anyone can argue with that.

Therefore, there is no alternative to being either open or closed (and IMO, blended learning may as well mean closed)

So if the OP is not happy with schools opening as they are (which she isnt) then I can only conclude she wants them to be shut.

what everyone else is saying [ gah, can't be bothered]

Apologies misquoted- should have said bloody not fucking.