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Covid

Secondary schools are fucked, BOFFINS ADMIT

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 13/11/2020 21:39

Latest ONS random sampling data shows that secondary school children in Y7-11 are now the age group with the highest infection rate in England, overtaking sixth form and university students.

In Wales "Schoolchildren are more likely to catch and spread coronavirus than previously thought, experts have warned... It was also discovered that while children were far more likely to be asymptomatic and not become seriously unwell, they were more likely to be the first positive case in any household."

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/schoolchildren-more-likely-catch-spread-19275959?fbclid=IwAR0kpoikv0D_nkwHx3lVyQX_cyDj6Ycy1d6gE3aRx6syxUKzFQsYzMDSqPw

English boffins are a bit slower on the uptake though
"SAGE’s report found that prevalence of Covid-19 in school-age children had “risen significantly” in the first wave, and that the rise in prevalence was “first visible around the time that schools reopened”.

However, it said that while this “may be indicative of a potential role for school opening, causation, including the extent to which transmission is occurring in schools, is unproven and difficult to establish”.

schoolsweek.co.uk/child-infection-rate-rise-began-when-schools-reopened-but-direct-link-unproven-says-sage/

It must indeed be difficult to establish whether there's transmission in a high risk environment where kids are packed in like sardines with no mitigation measures. A real head-scratcher. Especially if you spent the whole summer insisting that it would be fine because the kids are facing forward.

What do we want? Well, one of the major teaching unions has called on the government to:

  1. Demonstrate that they are following the scientific evidence and advice.
  2. Strengthen the guidance to schools and colleges on ensuring COVID-safe and COVID-secure working practices.
  3. Secure the updating and publication of health and safety risk assessments and equality impact assessments by school and college employers.
  4. Publish weekly data on positive cases of COVID-19 infections of school/college staff and pupils by local government area
  5. Ramp up inspection and enforcement measures in schools and colleges, including more comprehensive use of spot checks and visits by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE).
  6. Take swift action to protect public health in the event of an outbreak.
  7. Protect vulnerable teachers and support staff and pupils.
  8. Strengthen the guidance to insist on effective social distancing in schools/colleges.
  9. Establish a national plan for remote education/blended and distance learning.

10. Provide significant additional financial support for schools and colleges urgently to ensure the safety of staff and pupils, including extra funding for cleaning, personal protective equipment (PPE) and supply teachers

www.nasuwt.org.uk/article-listing/plan-to-keep-schools-safe-during-pandemic.html

Oh OP I knew this would be you yadayada...yeah that's why I chose the same thread title as before etc etc.

Why do we need another thread blah blah: it's because secondary school kids are now infected at the highest rates in the country. This has implications for lockdown. How effective will it be if the most infected subset of the population are mixing freely? And it's also the first hint from scientists that they might have been wrong about exactly how safe schools are. There's also a strong suggestion that kids are bringing the virus home from school which parents should be aware of.

It's also causing chaos in schools, but there's another thread about that.
Secondary schools are fucked, BOFFINS ADMIT
OP posts:
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TheHoneyBadger · 13/11/2020 23:05

@Juststopswimming

And how about being heartless towards the kids for whom school is a sanctuary? Away from abuse, where they can stay warm and fed?

Oh wait I forgot. You're only vulnerable if you're vulnerable to covid. Silly me.

This is ridiculous. Are you really saying the answer to kids in abusive unsafe is school? Do you think kids not being removed by social services and abusers not being prosecuted is ok so long as they can go to school?

Social services and the police are the ones who can and should protect these children and deal with those breaking the law. Going to school five days a week 39 weeks a year is not the answer to abuse.
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MrsHamlet · 13/11/2020 23:05

@cdtaylornats

No one thought schools would be safe. Just safer than mass mental illness.

Don't put that on us as well as everything else.
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BeaMends · 13/11/2020 23:06

@MadameBlobby

This is all really tedious. It is what it is. Kids catch and spread it, so what? They still need to go to school.

And employers have a legal duty of care towards their employees, and should provide a safe working environment. In this case, the employees happen to be teachers.
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gallbladderpain · 13/11/2020 23:06

I often wonder when i read these threads will people look back in years to come and regret their insistance on children being crammed into classrooms full time whenever more of the long term effects of covid in children as well as adults come to the forefront
I personally feel schools should be open and this is despite not returning my own children to school since early March (remote learning with support of school thankfully and I cannot praise their teachers enough for the support and all the effort they have put in in what is i am certain the most challenging time of their whole career) but the way things are at the minute many of them are out of school more than they would be if they were on a rota basis due to the constant self isolation cycle. Surely that is hugely detrimental as well....infact more so than planned cycles of in/out of class.
The way it is in my area there will soon be no teachers to teach the children anyway due to self isolation, having covid themselves, and on long term sick due to the long term effects of covid in some cases.
What will happen then ?
I don't profess to know the solution because I don't but there really has to be some better idea than the current situation !

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herecomesthsun · 13/11/2020 23:06

@cdtaylornats

No one thought schools would be safe. Just safer than mass mental illness.

Well it's not very good for our mental health as a family in a pandemic when I'm meant to be shielding and my kids are meant to be going into school, there have been cases, there's no proper infection management, how the fuck do you think we feel?
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TableFlowerss · 13/11/2020 23:06

Strange, the school my DC goes to says they aren’t allowed anywhere near the teacher (who is behind glass perspex) so they seem to be doing well to look after their staff.

There are a few members of staff off however, there’s no physical contact between the staff and kids so it’s a mystery as to how I (and my colleagues) who have to deal with the public day in dad out and touch things they’ve touched yet no ones off with it...

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Juststopswimming · 13/11/2020 23:07

And what happens when work isn't done because kids are melting their brains on fortnite instead of doing a carefully prepared zoom lesson?

Are teachers going to put people in detention remotely?

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monkeytennis97 · 13/11/2020 23:07

@howaboutholly blended learning is happening in the US, Italy, Austria, Poland and now France (I may have left out many other countries). So I guess some countries have chosen it. I'm up for blended learning with rotas in school (secondary only).

I'm also up for strike action but the unions can't ballot us for strike action for health and safety issues apparently so....

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noblegiraffe · 13/11/2020 23:07

@herecomesthsun

Can do attitude lol.

i would love to buy you a drink some time noble when this is all over.

Oh god that would be amazing.

Have sent you a PM btw which you might have missed with the dreadful new notification thing.
OP posts:
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orangecinnamon · 13/11/2020 23:08

@noblegiraffe I knew this would be you...and I'm in total awe, sorry just stanning your stats expertise over here!

Thank you for taking the time .

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WhyNotMe40 · 13/11/2020 23:08

@gallbladderpain

I often wonder when i read these threads will people look back in years to come and regret their insistance on children being crammed into classrooms full time whenever more of the long term effects of covid in children as well as adults come to the forefront
I personally feel schools should be open and this is despite not returning my own children to school since early March (remote learning with support of school thankfully and I cannot praise their teachers enough for the support and all the effort they have put in in what is i am certain the most challenging time of their whole career) but the way things are at the minute many of them are out of school more than they would be if they were on a rota basis due to the constant self isolation cycle. Surely that is hugely detrimental as well....infact more so than planned cycles of in/out of class.
The way it is in my area there will soon be no teachers to teach the children anyway due to self isolation, having covid themselves, and on long term sick due to the long term effects of covid in some cases.
What will happen then ?
I don't profess to know the solution because I don't but there really has to be some better idea than the current situation !

Hear hear Flowers
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canigooutyet · 13/11/2020 23:08

Someone official needs to crack on and admit the exams are cancelled. How can they study for them when they are there?
What about mocks, still going ahead in a couple of weeks? Realistically how will that work if half the year are isolating? Never mind your moderators?

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CallmeAngelina · 13/11/2020 23:08

@cdtaylornats

No one thought schools would be safe. Just safer than mass mental illness.

Erm, I beg to differ. I think there were many, many people who swallowed the government's propaganda that schools were safe.
Remember Boris visiting schools with a few random kids in view, when the rest of the class were crammed up the other end of the room, out of camera-shot?.
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BertNErnie · 13/11/2020 23:10

Oh here we go Madrid. Please do go away.

I am assuming you haven't seen the latest data or even watched the most recent news. Your best mate Jenny reported that MONTHS ago.

Catch up on the data from when schools reopened and come back with a different argument. GrinGrinGrinGrin

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Numberblock7 · 13/11/2020 23:11

Genuine, respectfully meant question Noble. What, apart from posting threads on here, are you doing about it? What do you want a general mumsnet reader/parent to do about it? How do you think any of your list, which are mainly reasonable requests, might actually be achieved?

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Duemarch2021 · 13/11/2020 23:11

This waa so obvious all along... how on earth did the government expect us to believe that classes full of teenagers were "not likely to spread covid" a load of bollocks.. it's all fake .. they're trying to keep us from panicking by feeding us crap.. same with nursery and school kids ... ofc they are spreading it! But they wantnus to believe they are not so they dont have to close schools.. because if they did, teachers wouldnt be paying tax into the system... people couldn't go to work as they'd be home looking after their kids so no tax being payed by them... they dont want to fork out for furlough... they dont want kids hanging round the street causing trouble etc etc etc

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WhyNotMe40 · 13/11/2020 23:11

@Juststopswimming

And what happens when work isn't done because kids are melting their brains on fortnite instead of doing a carefully prepared zoom lesson?

Are teachers going to put people in detention remotely?

Children melting their brains on Fortnite - well they have parents to enforce boundaries don't they?
But yes, I would envisage those students who cannot exert enough self discipline or work ethic to get their remote learning done will be the ones who attend detentions or in school supervision for their "out" days.
Works for normal out of school work aka homework....?
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Juststopswimming · 13/11/2020 23:11

Of course school is not a bloody answer to abuse!! But the fact is that those kids in vulnerable situations are not helped by being forced to stay at home all day, staying under the radar from support networks like schools.

The fact is that many people on MN shouting for lockdowns and school closures are advocating for those things because all they are thinking about from their naice mc homes and wfh jobs is covid, and not the bigger picture of what constitutes "vulnerable".

Is that so hard to understand?

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canigooutyet · 13/11/2020 23:12

Despite the figures, people are still buying into the bullshit schools are safe.
When other countries failed to remain open, nope won’t happen here. Schools will be coated with some special cv powers.

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RuleWithAWoodenFoot · 13/11/2020 23:12

Forget covid as the safety factor. Deteriorating behaviour and lack of staff is leaving some schools in situations where children aren't safe in general. From each other.

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MadridSun · 13/11/2020 23:15

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BertNErnie · 13/11/2020 23:15

You also obviously haven't been in a school as there are none I am aware of that have a staffroom open right now. All communal spaces are closed. Shut. Locked. Not open.

So not quite sure who else might be spreading covid - I wonder if it's the masses of secondary pupils who are not socially distancing by any chance?

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BungleandGeorge · 13/11/2020 23:15

Surely the answer is to direct resource to the schools which have a lot of positive cases and bring in some infection control experts. All schools are doing things differently and despite the best efforts of the SLT they are not always doing the right things or following their procedures. Mass testing is needed in those schools. This really can’t be a blanket thing as some schools have very few or no cases, the resource must go to those who need it just as it did with universities.
The infection rate actually started to increase before schools went back, it’s a product of holidays, eat out to help out, return to leisure facilities and afterschool activities, socialising inside in small groups etc. Not just school and it looks like the graph is steadily coming down now many of those things are shut. People have a bias towards what is more convenient and acceptable for themselves and their children sometimes based on skewed data and misconceptions, I’d like to see some impartial assessment and advice and then just go with whatever is recommended, even if it’s not my preferred option.

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KittCat · 13/11/2020 23:15

Covid secure my arse...anyone with half a brain cell knew this, yet here we are...

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WhyNotMe40 · 13/11/2020 23:16

@Juststopswimming

Of course school is not a bloody answer to abuse!! But the fact is that those kids in vulnerable situations are not helped by being forced to stay at home all day, staying under the radar from support networks like schools.

The fact is that many people on MN shouting for lockdowns and school closures are advocating for those things because all they are thinking about from their naice mc homes and wfh jobs is covid, and not the bigger picture of what constitutes "vulnerable".

Is that so hard to understand?

Noone is advocating for school closures. Strawman.

Maybe social services, who are actually the ones responsible for children's safety, could step up on the children's "day home learning" days?
Instead of refusing to meet in person with ONE student and ONE member of staff, with masks and windows open in a nice airy meeting room?
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