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Secondary schools are fucked, BOFFINS ADMIT

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 13/11/2020 21:39

Latest ONS random sampling data shows that secondary school children in Y7-11 are now the age group with the highest infection rate in England, overtaking sixth form and university students.

In Wales "Schoolchildren are more likely to catch and spread coronavirus than previously thought, experts have warned... It was also discovered that while children were far more likely to be asymptomatic and not become seriously unwell, they were more likely to be the first positive case in any household."

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/schoolchildren-more-likely-catch-spread-19275959?fbclid=IwAR0kpoikv0D_nkwHx3lVyQX_cyDj6Ycy1d6gE3aRx6syxUKzFQsYzMDSqPw

English boffins are a bit slower on the uptake though
"SAGE’s report found that prevalence of Covid-19 in school-age children had “risen significantly” in the first wave, and that the rise in prevalence was “first visible around the time that schools reopened”.

However, it said that while this “may be indicative of a potential role for school opening, causation, including the extent to which transmission is occurring in schools, is unproven and difficult to establish”.

schoolsweek.co.uk/child-infection-rate-rise-began-when-schools-reopened-but-direct-link-unproven-says-sage/

It must indeed be difficult to establish whether there's transmission in a high risk environment where kids are packed in like sardines with no mitigation measures. A real head-scratcher. Especially if you spent the whole summer insisting that it would be fine because the kids are facing forward.

What do we want? Well, one of the major teaching unions has called on the government to:

  1. Demonstrate that they are following the scientific evidence and advice.
  2. Strengthen the guidance to schools and colleges on ensuring COVID-safe and COVID-secure working practices.
  3. Secure the updating and publication of health and safety risk assessments and equality impact assessments by school and college employers.
  4. Publish weekly data on positive cases of COVID-19 infections of school/college staff and pupils by local government area
  5. Ramp up inspection and enforcement measures in schools and colleges, including more comprehensive use of spot checks and visits by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE).
  6. Take swift action to protect public health in the event of an outbreak.
  7. Protect vulnerable teachers and support staff and pupils.
  8. Strengthen the guidance to insist on effective social distancing in schools/colleges.
  9. Establish a national plan for remote education/blended and distance learning.
10. Provide significant additional financial support for schools and colleges urgently to ensure the safety of staff and pupils, including extra funding for cleaning, personal protective equipment (PPE) and supply teachers

www.nasuwt.org.uk/article-listing/plan-to-keep-schools-safe-during-pandemic.html

Oh OP I knew this would be you yadayada...yeah that's why I chose the same thread title as before etc etc.

Why do we need another thread blah blah: it's because secondary school kids are now infected at the highest rates in the country. This has implications for lockdown. How effective will it be if the most infected subset of the population are mixing freely? And it's also the first hint from scientists that they might have been wrong about exactly how safe schools are. There's also a strong suggestion that kids are bringing the virus home from school which parents should be aware of.

It's also causing chaos in schools, but there's another thread about that.

Secondary schools are fucked, BOFFINS ADMIT
OP posts:
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9
TheSunIsStillShining · 16/11/2020 17:53

@noblegiraffe

I don't understand how people -parents, media- can be so complacent and not shout at the top of their lungs

People don't want to know. I assume politicians because then they might have to do something about it and parents because they don't want to homeschool again.

I will never in a million years understand this. Not knowing is the worst thing ever!
Aragog · 16/11/2020 18:00

I didn't have the standard big 3 symptoms at the time of finding out I had Covid. I developed a cough a few hours later. I had a slightly raised temperature for about an hour around the time the cough started. A couple of days later i had a slight metallic taste to food for a day.

Before the test I had a tight chest and some breathlessness.
I went to the doctors as I was concerned I might have a bit of a chest infection - have had a number since having pneumonia years ago.

I was taken straight to A&E due to a very high blood pressure and fast heart rate.

The test was done automatically due to being kept in hospital overnight. It came back positive - after I'd spent a night on an open ward.

Appuskidu · 16/11/2020 18:02

I’ve seen it all now-a post saying teachers should be isolating from their family if they live with someone who works on a covid ward.

Forever?!

Angry
IloveJKRowling · 16/11/2020 18:25

What if it's the parent who works on a covid ward and has children who are - you know - in the same schools as those teachers? Should healthcare workers isolate from their children? Ridiculous and impossible.

How about masks in schools instead.

Danglingmod · 16/11/2020 18:34

On what thread, Appu?

Appuskidu · 16/11/2020 19:00

@Danglingmod

On what thread, Appu?
It’s on the Corona board-asking about if your child’s teacher tested positive, what happened Confused.
TheHoneyBadger · 16/11/2020 19:25

It's true. Most parents on here seem to stick their fingers in their years and sing everything is awesome a la Lego movie when faced with facts. Some spout outdated theories that we're always patent bullshit and have now been totally disproven and do their best to shoot the messenger.

Danglingmod · 16/11/2020 19:34

Found it... Confused

mrshoho · 16/11/2020 19:40

I'm so disgusted at the misleading data. I've sent an email to unison. I'm a TA in an SEN school and I know the risks but how long are the government going to continue with this bullshit? I'm also a parent of two kids in secondary schools and anyone with half a brain cell would know teaching staff in large schools, in areas of high community rates, are at higher risk to infection than most other occupations. It is going to get worse until it gets better. Will be watching as school after school is forced to close due to staff absence.

noblegiraffe · 16/11/2020 19:43

What nonsense we've had, Honey

No evidence of a single case of transmission between a pupil and teacher (they could come to my school)
Pupils will be in bubbles that will 'burst'
Classrooms are safe because the kids are all facing forward.
Children don't get infected
Children don't transmit the virus
Children will social distance where possible (never)
Those bloody classroom photos of spread out desks
That video of Boris where the kids were all shoved in a corner
That video the DfE just put out where the kids were in masks in the classroom
The facebook post from the DfE saying that smaller class sizes are making schools safer

I'm so annoyed thinking back on it. At some point they'll have to admit there's an issue.

OP posts:
TheHoneyBadger · 16/11/2020 19:59

I'm surprised there haven't been photos and videos of reality making their way into media. I'm rather disappointed with the youth of today. We'd have managed it despite having to have photos developed and no Facebook or tiktok.

OverTheRainbow88 · 16/11/2020 20:01

A kid in a school near us posted photos of the whole school packed together when a fire alarm
Went off! It made it into the Bristol post!

mrshoho · 16/11/2020 20:08

And in my London borough and the neighbouring boroughs there has been no positive effect from the current lockdown so far. Rates have shot up in the last week.

CallmeAngelina · 16/11/2020 20:21

Ah, but @mrshoho, according to the bbc London news, that's because of the last hurrah the night before lockdown. Hmm Angry No mention of schools AT ALL.

noblegiraffe · 16/11/2020 20:22

I am really interested to see the graphs for this week to see if lockdown is having any effect at all. It doesn't feel like it is.

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CallmeAngelina · 16/11/2020 20:35

Well, it will be a bit like peering downstairs when you've been flooded to see if the waters have receded, when you've left the back door wide open "because fresh air is important."

mrshoho · 16/11/2020 20:38

I can feel another uturn coming on. Just don't know how long this farce will continue before it does though?

Yes quite Angelina and bonfire night and Diwali is what people are saying here! Why not the schools though??

Ninbuscl · 16/11/2020 20:43

Why are the government so resistant to closing schools? It seems unlikely it is purely to protect children’s well-being? Is it because they are worried about the backlash from closing them?

TheSunIsStillShining · 16/11/2020 20:47
  1. childcare issues and working parents
  2. they made this the hill to die on. It is really hard to come down from that
  3. sheer stupidity
  4. they have no idea what a non-boarding eton school looks like?
  5. someone in their circle has a vested interest in keeping them open - book providers, exam providers...anyone who makes/loses money on schools. Although I'm stumped to think of who these might be, but I'm sure there are.

pick'n'mix

noblegiraffe · 16/11/2020 20:48

They don't even need to close schools (well maybe a circuit breaker now during lockdown as things are getting ridiculous and their hand may be forced), they just need to bloody do SOMETHING differently.

They just don't want to admit they fucked up and they don't want to spend any money.

Bit embarrassing to have spent the whole summer demonising the unions for wanting safety measures only to have to admit they might have had a point.

OP posts:
mrshoho · 16/11/2020 20:54

The disdain with which this government views state education has been obvious with the years of funding cuts. The fact that no additional funds were given to enable schools to do everything possible to reduce risks is terrible. what a disaster this is turning out to be.

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 16/11/2020 20:56

@Ninbuscl

Why are the government so resistant to closing schools? It seems unlikely it is purely to protect children’s well-being? Is it because they are worried about the backlash from closing them?
Likely worried about the backlash from parents who don’t want to have to educate again or want the childcare.

They would have to admit they got it wrong and schools aren’t covid safe and children do catch it and spread it.

Ninbuscl · 16/11/2020 21:00

I suppose that’s the point. Safety measures would cost money

cantkeepawayforever · 16/11/2020 21:02

They would have to admit they got it wrong and schools aren’t covid safe and children do catch it and spread it.

I think they're stuck in the same situation as anyone who tells a huge lie and is then found out - do you carry on repeating the lie again and again in the hope it becomes 'the truth as people remember it' so you never have to own up? Or do you one day have to come clean and say 'no, actually I lied'?

Barbie222 · 16/11/2020 21:11

I think they're stuck in the same situation as anyone who tells a huge lie and is then found out - do you carry on repeating the lie again and again in the hope it becomes 'the truth as people remember it' so you never have to own up? Or do you one day have to come clean and say 'no, actually I lied'?

I think unfortunately Boris is the kind of person who has always relied on a) in his personal and professional life, but now he's got one of those annoying sorts of jobs where people do dig out the truth eventually. The data will float up soon. I do wonder if this is what Cummings is running away from - not just schools themselves, but the whole mess of who will be liable for all the occupational health issues at the end of all this.