Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Secondary schools are fucked, BOFFINS ADMIT

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 13/11/2020 21:39

Latest ONS random sampling data shows that secondary school children in Y7-11 are now the age group with the highest infection rate in England, overtaking sixth form and university students.

In Wales "Schoolchildren are more likely to catch and spread coronavirus than previously thought, experts have warned... It was also discovered that while children were far more likely to be asymptomatic and not become seriously unwell, they were more likely to be the first positive case in any household."

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/schoolchildren-more-likely-catch-spread-19275959?fbclid=IwAR0kpoikv0D_nkwHx3lVyQX_cyDj6Ycy1d6gE3aRx6syxUKzFQsYzMDSqPw

English boffins are a bit slower on the uptake though
"SAGE’s report found that prevalence of Covid-19 in school-age children had “risen significantly” in the first wave, and that the rise in prevalence was “first visible around the time that schools reopened”.

However, it said that while this “may be indicative of a potential role for school opening, causation, including the extent to which transmission is occurring in schools, is unproven and difficult to establish”.

schoolsweek.co.uk/child-infection-rate-rise-began-when-schools-reopened-but-direct-link-unproven-says-sage/

It must indeed be difficult to establish whether there's transmission in a high risk environment where kids are packed in like sardines with no mitigation measures. A real head-scratcher. Especially if you spent the whole summer insisting that it would be fine because the kids are facing forward.

What do we want? Well, one of the major teaching unions has called on the government to:

  1. Demonstrate that they are following the scientific evidence and advice.
  2. Strengthen the guidance to schools and colleges on ensuring COVID-safe and COVID-secure working practices.
  3. Secure the updating and publication of health and safety risk assessments and equality impact assessments by school and college employers.
  4. Publish weekly data on positive cases of COVID-19 infections of school/college staff and pupils by local government area
  5. Ramp up inspection and enforcement measures in schools and colleges, including more comprehensive use of spot checks and visits by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE).
  6. Take swift action to protect public health in the event of an outbreak.
  7. Protect vulnerable teachers and support staff and pupils.
  8. Strengthen the guidance to insist on effective social distancing in schools/colleges.
  9. Establish a national plan for remote education/blended and distance learning.
10. Provide significant additional financial support for schools and colleges urgently to ensure the safety of staff and pupils, including extra funding for cleaning, personal protective equipment (PPE) and supply teachers

www.nasuwt.org.uk/article-listing/plan-to-keep-schools-safe-during-pandemic.html

Oh OP I knew this would be you yadayada...yeah that's why I chose the same thread title as before etc etc.

Why do we need another thread blah blah: it's because secondary school kids are now infected at the highest rates in the country. This has implications for lockdown. How effective will it be if the most infected subset of the population are mixing freely? And it's also the first hint from scientists that they might have been wrong about exactly how safe schools are. There's also a strong suggestion that kids are bringing the virus home from school which parents should be aware of.

It's also causing chaos in schools, but there's another thread about that.

Secondary schools are fucked, BOFFINS ADMIT
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
WhyNotMe40 · 15/11/2020 22:39

Boffin is not an insult.

CayrolBaaaskin · 15/11/2020 22:40

@HakeCod - well said

WhyNotMe40 · 15/11/2020 22:42

@HakeCod where do you get those figures from? Do they take into account that any Covid related absence has its own absence code which is not counted as an absence in attendance figures?

Possums4evr · 15/11/2020 22:45

Unfortunately several of the pupils in my school receiving an education last week were (unknowingly) Covid positive at the time.

noblegiraffe · 15/11/2020 22:47

Or we could look at the actual figures for secondary schools where attendance was 87% last week and on Thursday last week, 38% of secondaries had pupils isolating due to contact with a positive case within the school.

OP posts:
Hercwasonaroll · 15/11/2020 22:47

@HakeCod Source?

As PP said, which absence code?

Also I find 90% well above my (admittedly anecdotal) countrywide average from speaking to friends.

Teacher tapp had 1/3 schools with groups isolating.

WhyNotMe40 · 15/11/2020 22:48

2 weeks old that article! So relying on older data!

A LOT has changed in 2 weeks....

noblegiraffe · 15/11/2020 22:48

DfE attendance stats explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/attendance-in-education-and-early-years-settings-during-the-coronavirus-covid-19-outbreak from last week. Hake's are from September

OP posts:
IloveJKRowling · 15/11/2020 22:50

They don't want to reduce transmission in schools.That's the only logical conclusion.

That is so depressing. But probably true. I know a few children / teenagers who have had it really badly.

I still don't think it explains the lack of masks though. Surely, even if you do want children to catch it following the impossible dream of herd immunity (www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02948-4), you still want them to get it more mildly so they develop immunity but don't get really ill?

IloveJKRowling · 15/11/2020 22:51

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02948-4

TheSunIsStillShining · 15/11/2020 22:51

The % is very low, but the correlating numbers reflect a lot of kids...

"We estimate up to 361,000 pupils (4%) in state-funded schools did not attend school for COVID-19 related reasons on Thursday 5 November [8]. This includes:
12,000 (0.1%) pupils with a confirmed case of coronavirus
22,000 (0.3%) pupils with a suspected case of coronavirus
up to 301,000 (3.2 to 3.7%) pupils self-isolating due to potential contact with a case of coronavirus [8], [9]
25,000 (0.3%) pupils in schools closed for COVID-19 related reasons"

explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/attendance-in-education-and-early-years-settings-during-the-coronavirus-covid-19-outbreak

TheSunIsStillShining · 15/11/2020 22:52

sorry, didn't refresh before posting

HakeCod · 15/11/2020 22:53

With all due respect @TheSunIsStillShining, 96% of DC not absent for COVID related reasons is far better than 100% off with schools closed or 50% absent due to blended learning.

The picture being painted in some quarters of virtually every DC at home due to school closures or bubbles bursting is not an accurate reflection of what is happening inside schools.

WhyNotMe40 · 15/11/2020 22:54

@Possums4evr

Unfortunately several of the pupils in my school receiving an education last week were (unknowingly) Covid positive at the time.
Ha! I actually taught 2. One who was in the front row less than 2m from me at the board.... No masks of course. That was Thursday.
IloveJKRowling · 15/11/2020 22:54

Nature article explaining why herd immunity is likely not possible.

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02948-4

In Manaus in Brazil there are estimates 66% of population got it in first wave and they're still having a second wave. There are many documented cases of reinfection. So, yeah, the herd immunity strategy is completely unproven as something that could even possibly work. And increasing evidence it probably isn't possible naturally (if reinfection is possible as with other coronaviruses).

noblegiraffe · 15/11/2020 22:54

I still don't think it explains the lack of masks though

There are massive objections to masks in schools within the Tory Party. Masks in communal areas for all schools was briefed to be announced back when Scotland did, then ditched at the last minute for only schools in local lockdown areas due to pressure from Tory MPs.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 15/11/2020 22:55

One who was in the front row less than 2m from me at the board....

And so you are self-isolating, yes?

OP posts:
IloveJKRowling · 15/11/2020 22:56

Deciding to pursue herd immunity through school aged children is a positively evil thing to do.

stairway · 15/11/2020 22:57

Teacher of unknown location probably means supply teacher, which would make sense for them to have the highest rates as they move around schools.

IloveJKRowling · 15/11/2020 22:57

Basically because you 'don't like the idea of masks'. They will have blood on their hands. Mind you, they don't seem to mind starving children either so I wonder really why I'm surprised.

WhyNotMe40 · 15/11/2020 22:58

@noblegiraffe

One who was in the front row less than 2m from me at the board....

And so you are self-isolating, yes?

Ha ha ha ha.... No
Isthatitnow · 15/11/2020 23:06

God knows why they’re all so reluctant to touch it

Because they would have to look at closing schools for at least some of the time. And that’s both unpopular with Joe Public and (though I am no whizz with numbers) very bad for the economy. Both of which means they’ll struggle to get re-elected. Teacher illness and deaths will just be peddled as ‘collateral damage’, same as healthcare professionals. Couldn’t be avoided is palatable to Joe Public, providing it’s only a few of us and they’re able to say ‘they shouldn’t have been socialising in the (closed and locked) staff room’ or ‘it’s their own fault for not securing supermarket delivery slots’. If a few children die, it will be political suicide (although they’ll use ‘underlying conditions’ like children with type 1 or asthma couldn’t have gone on to live full and productive lives) but as it now seems unlikely to happen, it’s a risk they’re willing to take. Teachers are not huge Conservative voters as a group, anyway, so what have they got to lose?

Zandathepanda · 15/11/2020 23:07

Unlike Boris

noblegiraffe · 15/11/2020 23:09

@stairway

Teacher of unknown location probably means supply teacher, which would make sense for them to have the highest rates as they move around schools.
Nope, supply teachers are not teachers of an unknown type.

The suspicion is that those people simply answered 'teacher', as it's the biggest group of teachers.

OP posts: