Secondary schools are fucked, BOFFINS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

Latest ONS random sampling data shows that secondary school children in Y7-11 are now the age group with the highest infection rate in England, overtaking sixth form and university students.

In Wales "Schoolchildren are more likely to catch and spread coronavirus than previously thought, experts have warned... It was also discovered that while children were far more likely to be asymptomatic and not become seriously unwell, they were more likely to be the first positive case in any household."

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/schoolchildren-more-likely-catch-spread-19275959?fbclid=IwAR0kpoikv0D_nkwHx3lVyQX_cyDj6Ycy1d6gE3aRx6syxUKzFQsYzMDSqPw

English boffins are a bit slower on the uptake though
"SAGE’s report found that prevalence of Covid-19 in school-age children had “risen significantly” in the first wave, and that the rise in prevalence was “first visible around the time that schools reopened”.

However, it said that while this “may be indicative of a potential role for school opening, causation, including the extent to which transmission is occurring in schools, is unproven and difficult to establish”.

schoolsweek.co.uk/child-infection-rate-rise-began-when-schools-reopened-but-direct-link-unproven-says-sage/

It must indeed be difficult to establish whether there's transmission in a high risk environment where kids are packed in like sardines with no mitigation measures. A real head-scratcher. Especially if you spent the whole summer insisting that it would be fine because the kids are facing forward.

What do we want? Well, one of the major teaching unions has called on the government to:

1. Demonstrate that they are following the scientific evidence and advice.
2. Strengthen the guidance to schools and colleges on ensuring COVID-safe and COVID-secure working practices.
3. Secure the updating and publication of health and safety risk assessments and equality impact assessments by school and college employers.
4. Publish weekly data on positive cases of COVID-19 infections of school/college staff and pupils by local government area
5. Ramp up inspection and enforcement measures in schools and colleges, including more comprehensive use of spot checks and visits by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE).
6. Take swift action to protect public health in the event of an outbreak.
7. Protect vulnerable teachers and support staff and pupils.
8. Strengthen the guidance to insist on effective social distancing in schools/colleges.
9. Establish a national plan for remote education/blended and distance learning.

10. Provide significant additional financial support for schools and colleges urgently to ensure the safety of staff and pupils, including extra funding for cleaning, personal protective equipment (PPE) and supply teachers

www.nasuwt.org.uk/article-listing/plan-to-keep-schools-safe-during-pandemic.html

Oh OP I knew this would be you yadayada...yeah that's why I chose the same thread title as before etc etc.

Why do we need another thread blah blah: it's because secondary school kids are now infected at the highest rates in the country. This has implications for lockdown. How effective will it be if the most infected subset of the population are mixing freely? And it's also the first hint from scientists that they might have been wrong about exactly how safe schools are. There's also a strong suggestion that kids are bringing the virus home from school which parents should be aware of.

It's also causing chaos in schools, but there's another thread about that.

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Not charcoal biscuits. That would encourage them to prove it didn’t work.

Said child was both horrified and mortified!!!😂

The "NHS boss" in Hull calls for school closures after Hull surge to over 700cases per 100,000 news.sky.com/story/covid-19-hull-nhs-boss-calls-for-tighter-lockdown-and-school-closures-12133363

Another issue I have is sound. My classroom is next to a playground and due to staggered playtimes I cannot hear myself think for about two hours every morning. The open windows don't help!!

I have some lessons in our dining hall, including my Form time. It’s really challenging teaching alongside the kitchen staff preparing break/lunch food - I often have to shout!
When it gets particularly bad, I remember all those posters from the summer who have conveniently namechanged or disappeared and say to myself ‘this enough of a ‘can do’ attitude for you!!!!???

Oh, definitely. Staggered lunch and breaks plus open windows and doors means basically all lessons are disturbed by either screaming outside or music lessons, loud videos in other classrooms or lesson changeovers.

Agreed, the noise levels are horrendous. Our last lesson is two hours long with no break and loads of kids get sent out for talking and messing about during it.

Oh crap. They may have fudged the data and actually teachers have higher risk than front line healthcare workers.

I wouldn’t put it past them.
twitter.com/concernedofbri1/status/1327560058813689857?s=21

I also wasn’t aware that the study showing adults living with children only have an 8% increased risk of infection only went to August before schools went back.

twitter.com/concernedofbri1/status/1327770780772552704?s=21

Sun here is my classroom (roughly!)
The door is propped open. Only two of the three windows open, outwards from the bottom about 6 inches. The blinds are blackout blinds not slatted and hang freely.

Just been getting my head round the Twitter posts, Noble - if these figures really have been 'played' with in the way it seems, then it's disgraceful. Am I really surprised...? Not likely!

noble I saw an article on that study (think it was BBC), IIRC there were loads of comments below calling out the fact that it's only when kids weren't in school that this study was done.

People don't buy the blatant BBC bias these days - thing is, however many pics they show us of socially distanced classrooms, we actually see every day what it really looks like, as do our children who also generally don't like and are wise to being gaslighted.

And the idea that children (particularly those who've been through puberty) magically don't transmit the virus is just fundamentally insulting to our intelligence.

Why have they separated teaching staff like that??? It looks dodgy as hell.

Could do with a Piers Morgan intervention; unfortunately, like the rest of the influential media, they seem to know to leave education well alone

Agree, come on Piers, you know someone has to do this.

I don't understand the reticence - SOME kids get the virus badly and SOME kids will be damaged for life if their parents get it badly, or their teachers. Why is no-one talking about this?

Keep schools open yes, but it's like keeping a school open when all the fire escapes are blocked and the fire extinguishers broken. And saying well, yes, if there is a fire we might all die, but losing education time is bad too. Why not just make it as safe as possible?

We're not even following France, Italy and Spain and having everyone from age 6 in a mask - that would cost the government nothing at all. That could be done tomorrow and WOULD save lives because masks also reduce viral load and lead to milder disease. It should be an absolute no-brainer.

God knows why they’re all so reluctant to touch it. Maybe because they all dutifully published that schools are safe in the summer.

The scientists are making Herculean efforts to avoid concluding there’s an issue, it will be interesting to see what happens in Hull.

@mrshoho

Why have they separated teaching staff like that??? It looks dodgy as hell.

If they hadn't separated them out then the first thing people would have said was that they were burying the risk of secondary teachers by mixing them in with other types of teachers who were less likely to be infected.

God knows why they’re all so reluctant to touch it. Maybe because they all dutifully published that schools are safe in the summer. The scientists are making Herculean efforts to avoid concluding there’s an issue, it will be interesting to see what happens in Hull.

I think you're right but they're utterly deluded if they think they can get away with it forever.

Look at France, they didn't start off with masks (in classes) but at least had the care for their citizens to admit that they needed to change tack when the evidence became clear.

So many countries have coronavirus, with their own scientists who are drawing their own conclusions. E.g. director of the CDC saying masks are more important than a vaccine. And the official guidance in many places which say that at the rates of infection we have here, they'd shut their schools (e.g. in New York - I think 5% positivity IIRC - can't be arsed to look it up again).

The evidence is OVERWHELMING. They cannot dodge the facts from all around the world. They can suppress and distort data here only - not everywhere. They had plausible deniability in the summer (although Israel sounded a warning about what would happen and pretty much everyone said small class sizes and social distancing and masks where SD not possible were key) but they are running out of time to do an honest 'the evidence has changed and we need to act now to reduce transmission in schools'.

But ‘other type of teacher’ gets ignored because no one knows what it means when it really could be just ‘teacher’.

I’d have put teacher on a survey.

Boffins? Seriously? What is this 2002? This was a pathetic insult when I was at school 15 years ago.

Just put some money in - give headteachers money and let them come up with solutions. Remove the blocks to using community spaces. Just give them money and see how creative and brilliant schools can be.

My daughter's school managed small class sizes AND social distancing with a few extra staff in the summer - they were brilliant - such creative solutions. 4 weeks in school and no illness at all for DD's class. Since Sept she's been sick several times (not covid - but it doesn't take a genius to see that once it gets into the school, it will spread).

Nothing will change for Hull

Liverpool was over 700 for weeks and Blackburn’s been over 650 for weeks already

I don't see boffin as an insult. Sad that others might.

They dont want to reduce transmission in schools.
That's the only logical conclusion.
Remember Johnson took advice from the Swedish experts and only backed down from the herd immunity thing due to public outcry. Remember Jenny Harries constant reassurances that flew in the face of common sense and evidence.
They want kids to catch it and teachers / school staff are just collateral.

@noblegiraffe
H will be in all day meetings tomorrow, but Tuesday I'll try to convince him. Just setting expectations :)

Amidst all the doom and gloom, I think it may be helpful to have a look at some more positive figures regarding schools.

88% of DC were in school last week being educated. 90% of state schools are open as normal and 99.9% of schools are open to at least some D.C.

This is great for our DC’s wellbeing and future prospects and we should be thankful to the teachers and school staff who have kept schools open.

We should all be keeping our fingers crossed that the situation remains similar over the next few weeks so that schools can make it through to Christmas- contrary to the predictions of many.