Secondary schools are fucked, BOFFINS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

Latest ONS random sampling data shows that secondary school children in Y7-11 are now the age group with the highest infection rate in England, overtaking sixth form and university students.

In Wales "Schoolchildren are more likely to catch and spread coronavirus than previously thought, experts have warned... It was also discovered that while children were far more likely to be asymptomatic and not become seriously unwell, they were more likely to be the first positive case in any household."

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/schoolchildren-more-likely-catch-spread-19275959?fbclid=IwAR0kpoikv0D_nkwHx3lVyQX_cyDj6Ycy1d6gE3aRx6syxUKzFQsYzMDSqPw

English boffins are a bit slower on the uptake though
"SAGE’s report found that prevalence of Covid-19 in school-age children had “risen significantly” in the first wave, and that the rise in prevalence was “first visible around the time that schools reopened”.

However, it said that while this “may be indicative of a potential role for school opening, causation, including the extent to which transmission is occurring in schools, is unproven and difficult to establish”.

schoolsweek.co.uk/child-infection-rate-rise-began-when-schools-reopened-but-direct-link-unproven-says-sage/

It must indeed be difficult to establish whether there's transmission in a high risk environment where kids are packed in like sardines with no mitigation measures. A real head-scratcher. Especially if you spent the whole summer insisting that it would be fine because the kids are facing forward.

What do we want? Well, one of the major teaching unions has called on the government to:

1. Demonstrate that they are following the scientific evidence and advice.
2. Strengthen the guidance to schools and colleges on ensuring COVID-safe and COVID-secure working practices.
3. Secure the updating and publication of health and safety risk assessments and equality impact assessments by school and college employers.
4. Publish weekly data on positive cases of COVID-19 infections of school/college staff and pupils by local government area
5. Ramp up inspection and enforcement measures in schools and colleges, including more comprehensive use of spot checks and visits by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE).
6. Take swift action to protect public health in the event of an outbreak.
7. Protect vulnerable teachers and support staff and pupils.
8. Strengthen the guidance to insist on effective social distancing in schools/colleges.
9. Establish a national plan for remote education/blended and distance learning.

10. Provide significant additional financial support for schools and colleges urgently to ensure the safety of staff and pupils, including extra funding for cleaning, personal protective equipment (PPE) and supply teachers

www.nasuwt.org.uk/article-listing/plan-to-keep-schools-safe-during-pandemic.html

Oh OP I knew this would be you yadayada...yeah that's why I chose the same thread title as before etc etc.

Why do we need another thread blah blah: it's because secondary school kids are now infected at the highest rates in the country. This has implications for lockdown. How effective will it be if the most infected subset of the population are mixing freely? And it's also the first hint from scientists that they might have been wrong about exactly how safe schools are. There's also a strong suggestion that kids are bringing the virus home from school which parents should be aware of.

It's also causing chaos in schools, but there's another thread about that.

"I just feel like there is an injustice in shouting people down."

Ha, you're not wrong there. Noble has been one of the worst victims of this.

You get ‘shit’ (actually, some degree of eye rolling from me) because it causes the teacher bashing you say you desperately don’t want to happen.

I’ve posted in answer to you on two threads. Two.

One was on the vaccination threads when I pointed out it wasn’t all about teachers.

And then on here.

I would be taking my life into my hands if I did a search on how many threads you have started since September it is a lot. There is an agenda. Mostly I stay off them. I wish I had stayed off this one, but too late now.

The problem is that it becomes a bit akin to a dodgy fire alarm that goes off at the first sign of smoke. People might say ‘but there IS smoke. There IS.’ Yes, but you don’t get serious responses. You get either panic, or more likely when it keeps going off, grumbling and not-this-again. Up to you but if you genuinely wish to tone down teacher bashing I don’t think this is the way, which is why I roll my eyes.

And that is the extent of it, BTW, I have rolled my eyes.

@noblegiraffe

What are the hundreds of thousands of kids quarantining unable to even leave the house doing?

My DD is year nine and isolating as her bubble has burst, she is doing the school work provided and lying in bed a lot, neighbours on both sides working from home and one is a policeman and they are all keeping an eye out.

Honestly I think if some posters are making it personal against @noblegiraffe then it means they think their argument is not strong enough to stand on its own. Back your argument up with data, statistics and logic, not personal digs.

@MilesJuppIsMyBitch hello!!

Good to hear that your children are doing well at home, I can’t imagine how stressful it is for ECV families with children in school the way things are going at the moment. The lack of support from the government has been outrageous and that they would still require your children to go to school during this lockdown is cruel.

"One was on the vaccination threads when I pointed out it wasn’t all about teachers."

And, out of interest, had any teacher/poster said it was all about teachers?

@Hercwasonaroll

I see lots of comments like this and I never fully understand them as part-time might reduce the odds of self isolating by having fewer contacts and more distancing (though, with a three year old?) but it won't eliminate it,

If there's half the number of students, that's half the potential exposure. Three yos the whole bubble has to shut as they can't distance. However at secondary classes of 15 would be able to distance and true close contacts could be sent home. Reducing the disruption for everyone.

Reducing but not necessarily in a way that's predictable for an individual - you'd still end up with children isolating multiple times and some never doing it. People act like it's a choice between the regular, guaranteed disruption of part-time or unscheduled disruption and that you just have to make a rational choice between those two options but a lot of families would still have both, and it would still be disproportionately affecting certain areas, and I don't know how much comfort it'll be that this was statistically less likely now.

The discussion had certainly started to focus on teachers, but you’re free to have a read of it angelina.

Like it or not, when stories like this (some upsetting content) are published, when doctors are sustaining serious burns trying to save patients, when we complain about not accessing the vaccination or about being unsafe in a school, it doesn’t look good.

And just to reassure you I equally roll my eyes at the cold sad children who can’t sing happy birthday in a room with an open window. I am most indiscriminate with my eye rolling.

[quote noblegiraffe]@MilesJuppIsMyBitch hello!!

Good to hear that your children are doing well at home, I can’t imagine how stressful it is for ECV families with children in school the way things are going at the moment. The lack of support from the government has been outrageous and that they would still require your children to go to school during this lockdown is cruel.[/quote]
I had my e-mail, letter, text and bizarre-robot-text-to-my-landline from the government last week.

Apparently, my children should continue to go to school, but I should stay at least two metres away from them. Like Boris does from his.

In other news, the BBC reported today that parents with DCs at schools are 8% more likely to catch COVID.

There's another thread on here today talking about a 45yo ECV dad who just died, after catching COVID from his daughter.

It's fucking criminal.

but a lot of families would still have both

When hundreds of thousands of kids are missing school in unscheduled disruption and aren’t even allowed to leave the house during it, that disruption should be urgently tackled to reduce it.

People were horrified in Spain that kids weren’t allowed out for exercise and yet that is happening to more and more children because the government refuses to change things in schools. They don’t even want to admit there’s a problem let alone make plans to tackle it.

complain... about being unsafe in a school, it doesn’t look good

It's not safe in school fgs.

I’m dreading my year 7 or my youngest DC’s bubble bursting and I wouldn’t be happy about my 11 year old being home alone for two weeks but I can’t see anywhere that the OP is advocating that.

There's another thread on here today talking about a 45yo ECV dad who just died, after catching COVID from his daughter.

Oh god that is just awful. That poor family and that poor girl who will no doubt blame herself for a situation that was in no way her fault.

That’s the inevitable outcome of the government school policy. Absolutely heartbreaking.

Honesty and transparency about the situation is needed so that parents can make their own decisions.

I cover the absentees, some of whom I know have tested positive.

I also cover across the whole school, in classrooms and across year groups, where some I know have tested positive.

I have primary aged children and no Covid isolation childcare or Blended learning childcare.

Secondary school - year 9 upwards - probably can be trusted to not set the house on fire and can work on VLEs.

Others cannot do a Kevin and be Home Alone - not in year 7/8 and not in primary - so how would you expect me to continue teaching OP?
How would you continue teaching if you had no childcare?

@RishiMcRichface

Honestly I think if some posters are making it personal against *@noblegiraffe* then it means they think their argument is not strong enough to stand on its own. Back your argument up with data, statistics and logic, not personal digs.

Exactly! Stop with the snide comments and you'll get a reasonable response. I'm grateful that Noble is posting as the reality of what is really going on in our state schools is far from the picture presented in mainstream news. The posters who start a post with sarcastic personal digs get my back up and then act surprised when they are called up on it.

Well, you say not herc - in terms of people catching the virus, possibly true, in terms of people being extremely adversely affected by it, it is true. In other words, teachers are not dying of coronavirus in huge numbers. With that being said, vulnerable staff and children should of course be given the option not to go in. But that’s different from school closure or blended learning.

@noblegiraffe

There's another thread on here today talking about a 45yo ECV dad who just died, after catching COVID from his daughter.

Oh god that is just awful. That poor family and that poor girl who will no doubt blame herself for a situation that was in no way her fault.

That’s the inevitable outcome of the government school policy. Absolutely heartbreaking.

Honesty and transparency about the situation is needed so that parents can make their own decisions.

Exactly. It's what a I'm trying to protect my kids from.

But to do so, I've had to actively go against government and school advice, and front up to the threat of fines.

Ironically, I've been able to do so largely because I'm educated and articulate. This should not be a pre-requisite for keeping your family safe during a pandemic!

I have primary aged children and no Covid isolation childcare or Blended learning childcare.....so how would you expect me to continue teaching OP?

In a mask with the kids in masks (secondary) in a well ventilated classroom where it’s far less likely that there will be positive kids because there will be regular testing and proper tracing when there are positive cases. You’d be far less likely to catch it then too.

Wouldn’t that be great?

I do that already thanks - you know precisely what I mean. If you advocate or propose part-time/blended learning as a possible solution to keeping figures down, how do you expect your colleagues - in this case, your colleagues who are protecting you from being hit for cover in the first place - to be able to work their contracts if primary/secondary blended learning timetables don't correspond?

But to do so, I've had to actively go against government and school advice, and front up to the threat of fines.

And the strain that will have put on you is no doubt immense.

I don’t know if the govt even consulted with parent groups on this, they and SAGE seem particularly out of touch with the real situations in schools. Broad data doesn’t capture the real picture.

It makes me so angry that they are ‘surprised’ that things are going so badly. They could have asked.

If you advocate or propose part-time/blended learning as a possible solution to keeping figures down

I don’t.

I'm another who didn't know what child/ren noble has. I presumed you were older than you presumably are to have an 11yo. Given you're not advocating remote learning blended or otherwise I'm not sure why your feelings about ages children can be left alone is relevant though 🤷‍♀️

People probably know about my child because I was picking other teachers brains about maths to support my sons home learning during lockdown and saw teachers on here as a great resource rather than whipping boys.

I will be back in school tomorrow teaching and setting work for isolators and dealing with manic year 8s who have been stuck in the same grotty room all day every school day since September.

Most of them are unlucky enough to be stuck in their room with at least two, but in one class 6, students with incredibly destructive behaviour at the best of times let alone when attempting to stay in one place for hours.

Year 8 have not had to isolate at all (bar individuals who needed a test or had a close contact in the family) but their education has certainly not been normal.

@SequinsandStiIettos

I do that already thanks - you know precisely what I mean. If you advocate or propose part-time/blended learning as a possible solution to keeping figures down, how do you expect your colleagues - in this case, your colleagues who are protecting you from being hit for cover in the first place - to be able to work their contracts if primary/secondary blended learning timetables don't correspond?

Just to confirm you have all teachers and students wearing masks in the classroom at your school? If so I'm not sure why you're arguing against teachers wanting similar protections in their schools?

@SequinsandStiIettos

I do that already thanks - you know precisely what I mean. If you advocate or propose part-time/blended learning as a possible solution to keeping figures down, how do you expect your colleagues - in this case, your colleagues who are protecting you from being hit for cover in the first place - to be able to work their contracts if primary/secondary blended learning timetables don't correspond?

Wouldn't you be classed as a key worker and therefore in school provision be provided.

I am advocating rota systems for secondary as i believe class sizes in small classrooms need to halved. The buildings are overcrowded and we have a long Winter ahead. I would much rather this to the random closures currently taking place. It doesn't have to be nationwide obviously but in so many areas there currently thousands of children at home self isolating with the fear of having to repeat it time and again.

Fair enough. I don't follow your threads religiously so I have had to search for your solution and I do agree with you that masks should be mandatory and teachers should be tested weekly - however, many many secondary schools already have proper mitigation measures in place, track and trace seating planning, windows open, the works and are taking on extra cleaning staff.
I am surprised if yours isn't.
There is still Covid- infection. The current protocols are to minimise risk but they cannot eliminate it entirely.

The only thing I would like to see is teachers added to the first roll-out of Pfizer vaccine, along with the careworkers and NHS workers already planned for.

Get the infections down with a break, sort track and trace to a point where it’s useful, impose proper mitigation measures in schools (masks, space created for teachers to sd from classes, improved ventilation measures mandated, more money for cleaning etc, regular testing of school staff and a proper study of how covid spreads in schools with lessons learned and applied promptly)