Secondary schools are fucked, BOFFINS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

Latest ONS random sampling data shows that secondary school children in Y7-11 are now the age group with the highest infection rate in England, overtaking sixth form and university students.

In Wales "Schoolchildren are more likely to catch and spread coronavirus than previously thought, experts have warned... It was also discovered that while children were far more likely to be asymptomatic and not become seriously unwell, they were more likely to be the first positive case in any household."

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/schoolchildren-more-likely-catch-spread-19275959?fbclid=IwAR0kpoikv0D_nkwHx3lVyQX_cyDj6Ycy1d6gE3aRx6syxUKzFQsYzMDSqPw

English boffins are a bit slower on the uptake though
"SAGE’s report found that prevalence of Covid-19 in school-age children had “risen significantly” in the first wave, and that the rise in prevalence was “first visible around the time that schools reopened”.

However, it said that while this “may be indicative of a potential role for school opening, causation, including the extent to which transmission is occurring in schools, is unproven and difficult to establish”.

schoolsweek.co.uk/child-infection-rate-rise-began-when-schools-reopened-but-direct-link-unproven-says-sage/

It must indeed be difficult to establish whether there's transmission in a high risk environment where kids are packed in like sardines with no mitigation measures. A real head-scratcher. Especially if you spent the whole summer insisting that it would be fine because the kids are facing forward.

What do we want? Well, one of the major teaching unions has called on the government to:

1. Demonstrate that they are following the scientific evidence and advice.
2. Strengthen the guidance to schools and colleges on ensuring COVID-safe and COVID-secure working practices.
3. Secure the updating and publication of health and safety risk assessments and equality impact assessments by school and college employers.
4. Publish weekly data on positive cases of COVID-19 infections of school/college staff and pupils by local government area
5. Ramp up inspection and enforcement measures in schools and colleges, including more comprehensive use of spot checks and visits by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE).
6. Take swift action to protect public health in the event of an outbreak.
7. Protect vulnerable teachers and support staff and pupils.
8. Strengthen the guidance to insist on effective social distancing in schools/colleges.
9. Establish a national plan for remote education/blended and distance learning.

10. Provide significant additional financial support for schools and colleges urgently to ensure the safety of staff and pupils, including extra funding for cleaning, personal protective equipment (PPE) and supply teachers

www.nasuwt.org.uk/article-listing/plan-to-keep-schools-safe-during-pandemic.html

Oh OP I knew this would be you yadayada...yeah that's why I chose the same thread title as before etc etc.

Why do we need another thread blah blah: it's because secondary school kids are now infected at the highest rates in the country. This has implications for lockdown. How effective will it be if the most infected subset of the population are mixing freely? And it's also the first hint from scientists that they might have been wrong about exactly how safe schools are. There's also a strong suggestion that kids are bringing the virus home from school which parents should be aware of.

It's also causing chaos in schools, but there's another thread about that.

This issue with what you are saying is that -as a system- it created inequalities. It depends on pot luck if the teacher are tech savvy or not...

This happens with everything in teaching. Some are better than others. Of all the inequalities borne from lockdown, the ICT skills of teachers is not a big one.

We had to turn off private messages because of the abuse we were getting from parents.

Starting meets in a timely manner would be lovely, but when I have to move classrooms, get a webcam, get logged in and set up, I'm usually 10 minutes later than the official lesson start time.

Why should the teacher have to organise the content differently? It should be labeled appropriately but the lesson should explain what to use and when.

Ive interacted with noble on here many many times and I couldn't have told you the age or sex of her child. (Sorry, noble!)

I wouldn’t expect you to, I don’t post about them very much at all.

but the problem is when it’s a regular thing, and people are aware of it, that child is extremely vulnerable,

Did this happen in the first lockdown? I think not.

@howaboutholly I was just answering the question you asked Noble about her own child.

Vulnerable kids should be in school as they had provision for in lockdown 1.

I think you are the one coming over a little obsessed now, giraffe

I would have had a child the same age as yours (and many many MANY others on here - having an eleven year old really isn’t the special, revealing information you are implying it is.) When you lose a child, you do tend to fucking well

Stalking is a serious fucking crime. It involves intrusive and frightening invasions of people’s privacy. And you have screamed it at me over and over because I remembered something. No one has ‘searched’ you. Like others from TES of old I do know/remember some of the posters who posted there who either came here around the time or just after TES went to shit. I’m not going to name them because you’ll probably decide that’s ‘stalking’ as well.

Seriously, wind your neck in. I’m not even bothering responding now. Change your name, if you don’t want people remembering the highly personal and confidential information like the age of your kid. And incidentally the fact you’re on a parenting website and so rarely mention your own kids is tragic.

And ‘vulnerable’ is not something that can easily be defined. Or something people care to admit to.

*fucking well REMEMBER it.

Oh, and if secondary schools are fucked, FE colleges are even more fucked.

It’s really hard to tell how bad it is because they won’t separate out the sixth form/college data from university data (which everyone knows is fucked because they did mass testing and journalists actually reported on it unlike schools).

FE colleges are allowed blended learning aren’t they? How is that going?

I do appreciate these thread, though I live in the place with no covid case yet. It's great to know as a parents what is happening in the country, and what teachers are feeling under pressure. Education is the main interest for me as a parents of school aged children.

Also Noble is one of the MN teacher I really admire. I name changed over years, but she has helped me numerous times. Gave me the impression over the years, that she is the best teacher to have as a pupil, and as a parent, I would listen and trust whatever she says.

People have choice here, if you are not interested or nothing to contribute in meaningful discussion, you don't need to comment on the thread.

@Hercwasonaroll

This issue with what you are saying is that -as a system- it created inequalities. It depends on pot luck if the teacher are tech savvy or not...

This happens with everything in teaching. Some are better than others. Of all the inequalities borne from lockdown, the ICT skills of teachers is not a big one.

We had to turn off private messages because of the abuse we were getting from parents.

Starting meets in a timely manner would be lovely, but when I have to move classrooms, get a webcam, get logged in and set up, I'm usually 10 minutes later than the official lesson start time.

Why should the teacher have to organise the content differently? It should be labeled appropriately but the lesson should explain what to use and when.

Mostly fair points, and I think it's a very small portion of the overall issues.

I have tried to explain this to my son, and he gets it. He is the only stay at home kid so teachers don't even have to accommodate him.
But it doesn't make it any easier and less frustrating that he has to sit there and every 10 seconds refresh the page to see if the meet has started. In a case like this I think it's more detrimental than anything. And creates a layer of work/thought for the teachers that is not needed. My kid would prefer to not have mandatory classes, but be able to ask for a lunchtime meet if he really gets stuck. They do those anyway with the kids.
And this is where I run into walls and inflexibility. They can't even fathom that there is a structure where they don't interact (meaninglessly) with kid but only assess him. We proved in Sept that it works and in Oct that their way doesn't. And yet, still not bending a bit.

Yeah, it's about labeling. They don't do it. But when that doesn't happen and you need to find something in a 60+ list of posts and open every one separately... it's annoying....
If this was the biggest issue I'd be the happiest :)

God, why would you get abuse from parents??? In any time, but now???
I have emailed 3 teachers since September. 1 to apologize on behalf of my son, in september, that he is skipping lessons in his subject and we have a x3 private tutor time per week set up to get him up to speed and he'll join in a month and a half when he actually can get on with it (german). And for reference: catch up is working, he is now all up to speed :) And the 2 others to ask for the textbook title to buy. What else would I want from them? They have enough work, they don't need to harass them.

People are allowed to search back 🤷🏻‍♀️ I mean it’s not something I could be arsed doing personally but there’s no rule against it. if you don’t want people to know something about you then don’t post about it. Aren’t we always telling kids that once something is on the internet, that’s it out there forever?

Risk you take, to be honest.

And ‘vulnerable’ is not something that can easily be defined. Or something people care to admit to.

We had plenty of y7s in over lockdown for childcare while parents worked.

However if students are isolating they can't come in. 2 weeks at home with no escape and no notice to prepare is a disaster for those in abusive homes. There are students on their fourth period of isolation.

A planned for blended learning approach means students are far less likely to need to isolate. It also means we can see students regularly and keep an eye.

My 3yo is on his second 2 week isolation. A planned for 3 day week would be preferable.

I see lots of comments like this and I never fully understand them as part-time might reduce the odds of self isolating by having fewer contacts and more distancing (though, with a three year old?) but it won't eliminate it, so for lots and lots of people it would mean long-term and short-term disruption.

@SuperAlly

People are allowed to search back 🤷🏻‍♀️ I mean it’s not something I could be arsed doing personally but there’s no rule against it. if you don’t want people to know something about you then don’t post about it. Aren’t we always telling kids that once something is on the internet, that’s it out there forever?

Risk you take, to be honest.

Except I DIDN’T

Actually, I did briefly this morning to reassure myself I hadn’t completely, totally lost the plot - I was right, there was a discussion back in May about Y6/Y7 transition and managing it during lockdowns.

Just saw the article about this on the BBC this morning, and came on here hoping @noblegiraffe would have started a thread about it. You're so resilient, noble. I'm sorry to see you're having shit thrown at you once again.

I haven't read the thread, as I can't cope with the shitty dismissive ness and sneering, but I did read the first few posts, and wanted to make a point about children's' mental health.

It may well be that many of your children are happier in school.

For many of us with health problems, though, our children are very, very worried about us catching COVID.

I'm homeschooling at the moment, and my kids have gone from bed wetting, crying at school and insisting on sleeping in my room, to calmly sleeping through the nights in their own beds, and being reasonably content.

They are a bit sad, but I think that's only to be expected in our situation.

I don't understand this black-and-white insistence that ALL children must be better off at school. It's bullshit.

And this is where I run into walls and inflexibility. They can't even fathom that there is a structure where they don't interact (meaninglessly) with kid but only assess him. We proved in Sept that it works and in Oct that their way doesn't. And yet, still not bending a bit.

Because the DfE will haul them over the coals. That's the bit parents don't see, the BS regulations.

I use MS teams and upload all resources for the lesson into something called an assignment. Not sure how meets works tbh. MS Teams calls the students like Skype so no need to refresh the page.

The abuse was vile tbh. Can't say too much but the function needed turning off!

Anyway that is that. Let’s move on. I really am not a stalker, and I NC all the time because I have experienced some degree of internet stalking and it’s horrible.

——————————

^

line.

Except I DIDN’T

I don’t know (or particularly care) whether you did or not. I’m just making the point that we shouldn’t be rounding on posters for doing so when there is no rule against it. You can’t just shout someone down for that because it doesn’t suit you.

I have no skin in this game, for the record. I’m interested as a parent (of primary ages child) but I’m not “aware” of the OP etc.

I see lots of comments like this and I never fully understand them as part-time might reduce the odds of self isolating by having fewer contacts and more distancing (though, with a three year old?) but it won't eliminate it,

If there's half the number of students, that's half the potential exposure. Three yos the whole bubble has to shut as they can't distance. However at secondary classes of 15 would be able to distance and true close contacts could be sent home. Reducing the disruption for everyone.

@Hercwasonaroll

And this is where I run into walls and inflexibility. They can't even fathom that there is a structure where they don't interact (meaninglessly) with kid but only assess him. We proved in Sept that it works and in Oct that their way doesn't. And yet, still not bending a bit.

Because the DfE will haul them over the coals. That's the bit parents don't see, the BS regulations.

I use MS teams and upload all resources for the lesson into something called an assignment. Not sure how meets works tbh. MS Teams calls the students like Skype so no need to refresh the page.

The abuse was vile tbh. Can't say too much but the function needed turning off!

I get the Dfe part fully. The school I'm referring to is private, so should have way more flexibility. Google Classroom is quite similar. I've used both, and to be fair the differences are so tiny.... I would love to try apple one at some point just out of curiousity

People are allowed to search back

Sure but following someone onto threads just to post digs about them, spying on other threads they are on and then using what they post there against them and bringing up details about someone’s kids in an argument when they have not been part of the discussion isn’t on.

I get a lot of shit just for posting these threads. People who don’t like them should just stay off them, but they don’t. They deliberately come onto them to specifically have a go at me.

This is one of those times. Why would anyone defend that behaviour?

Ahh OK yes no reason for them to be SO inflexible!!

So report it 🤷🏻‍♀️ If that’s what’s going on.

I mean it’s a two-bit discussion forum. People can read and post whatever they want. If you think they’re broken the rules then report it by all means - no one should feel bullied and if MN feel the mark has been overstepped then they should take action.

But you can’t stop people reading and posting within the guidelines.

I’m not “defending” any such behaviour by the way. I don’t care. I just feel like there is an injustice in shouting people down.

To a certain extent, learning in FE is blended learning, because for many vocational courses, learning takes place at least partly in the workplace and in learners’ own time, with minimum supervision.
I can only speak for my own workplace, but basically it’s business as usual as far as teaching and learning are concerned. I suspect lack of technology (and lack of funds to invest in technology) is part of it, but the particular demographic on full time (non apprenticeship/NVQ) courses (many less able/poorly organised/deprived or vulnerable than in schools) means it’s far harder to implement blended learning that works.
In my particular area we could have run effective blended learning for many learners, which would have actually benefited them (as we know from teaching remotely over lockdown), but this was vetoed by management on the grounds of consistency. I’m really annoyed by this, especially as two thirds of my team (inc. me) are CV.