Secondary schools are fucked, BOFFINS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

Latest ONS random sampling data shows that secondary school children in Y7-11 are now the age group with the highest infection rate in England, overtaking sixth form and university students.

In Wales "Schoolchildren are more likely to catch and spread coronavirus than previously thought, experts have warned... It was also discovered that while children were far more likely to be asymptomatic and not become seriously unwell, they were more likely to be the first positive case in any household."

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/schoolchildren-more-likely-catch-spread-19275959?fbclid=IwAR0kpoikv0D_nkwHx3lVyQX_cyDj6Ycy1d6gE3aRx6syxUKzFQsYzMDSqPw

English boffins are a bit slower on the uptake though
"SAGE’s report found that prevalence of Covid-19 in school-age children had “risen significantly” in the first wave, and that the rise in prevalence was “first visible around the time that schools reopened”.

However, it said that while this “may be indicative of a potential role for school opening, causation, including the extent to which transmission is occurring in schools, is unproven and difficult to establish”.

schoolsweek.co.uk/child-infection-rate-rise-began-when-schools-reopened-but-direct-link-unproven-says-sage/

It must indeed be difficult to establish whether there's transmission in a high risk environment where kids are packed in like sardines with no mitigation measures. A real head-scratcher. Especially if you spent the whole summer insisting that it would be fine because the kids are facing forward.

What do we want? Well, one of the major teaching unions has called on the government to:

1. Demonstrate that they are following the scientific evidence and advice.
2. Strengthen the guidance to schools and colleges on ensuring COVID-safe and COVID-secure working practices.
3. Secure the updating and publication of health and safety risk assessments and equality impact assessments by school and college employers.
4. Publish weekly data on positive cases of COVID-19 infections of school/college staff and pupils by local government area
5. Ramp up inspection and enforcement measures in schools and colleges, including more comprehensive use of spot checks and visits by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE).
6. Take swift action to protect public health in the event of an outbreak.
7. Protect vulnerable teachers and support staff and pupils.
8. Strengthen the guidance to insist on effective social distancing in schools/colleges.
9. Establish a national plan for remote education/blended and distance learning.

10. Provide significant additional financial support for schools and colleges urgently to ensure the safety of staff and pupils, including extra funding for cleaning, personal protective equipment (PPE) and supply teachers

www.nasuwt.org.uk/article-listing/plan-to-keep-schools-safe-during-pandemic.html

Oh OP I knew this would be you yadayada...yeah that's why I chose the same thread title as before etc etc.

Why do we need another thread blah blah: it's because secondary school kids are now infected at the highest rates in the country. This has implications for lockdown. How effective will it be if the most infected subset of the population are mixing freely? And it's also the first hint from scientists that they might have been wrong about exactly how safe schools are. There's also a strong suggestion that kids are bringing the virus home from school which parents should be aware of.

It's also causing chaos in schools, but there's another thread about that.

@Crownofthorns: You are spectacularly missing the point here.

We. All. Want. Schools. To. Remain. Open.

The only thing that needs discussing is how best to achieve that aim.

There’s like a tag team of people coming on this thread to tell me I want schools closed. Every time.

Hmm, Interesting development in Austria though!

@crownofthorns. This is my third post on Mumsnet but I have lurked for many months - I mention this only to show that I am not a ‘you again.’ Unfortunately, many of us who work in schools would agree that @noblegiraffe has been spot on with her comments throughout. Schools are not safe and her sensible suggestions to keep them open are routinely ignored.

I completely understand your concern for your children and their education and mental health. I agree that the children are happier and best served in schools. But we can’t continue as we are doing with Covid racing through schools in many areas and the constant quarantining of staff and children. With proper mitigation in place, schools might be able to stay open but your children could still learn at home if push came to shove (agreed it is not as good as being in school but it is a pandemic and many, many things aren’t ideal). Your children’s metal health may be affected but it is likely to be a short term problem which is situation based (and therefore resolved by schools opening In a safe way avoiding the inning and outing all the time). These issues aren’t PRIORITIES - stopping transmission of a disease which can leave us with long term health issues and which can even kill us is a priority. Short term problems versus long term or permanent issues.

Please listen to those of us who are experiencing it and try to understand why we want things to be safer to keep children in school and to protect school staff and the wider community. Children wearing masks in lessons would be an easy thing to introduce as a start.

CarrieBlue
Do you know which group isn’t confused? Secondary school teachers.
"Eight members of staff at Holy Trinity Stacksteads CE Primary School in Bacup, Lancashire, contracted coronavirus following a gathering at the home of an ex-colleague”

Are you saying that secondary school teachers don't socalise with other teachers outside of school?

noblegiraffe
the head in that case admitted the staff hadn’t broken any rules

That's fair enough, but we can't now justify schools in tier 1, for example, having blended learning (primary or secondary schools) to facilitate groups of adults socialising outside of school (school staff or not). Education must take priority.

but we can't now justify schools in tier 1, for example, having blended learning

I’m not arguing for blended learning. Can you justify secondary schools not having mass testing or masks or money to improve ventilation?

@Clavinova well there's two of us in this household and we haven't since March. Literally school and walking is our life at the moment, not even seeing my DC.

Are you saying that secondary school teachers don't socalise with other teachers outside of school?

No one should be socialising at the moment.

That's fair enough, but we can't now justify schools in tier 1, for example, having blended learning (primary or secondary schools) to facilitate groups of adults socialising outside of school (school staff or not). Education must take priority.

Has anyone suggested that as the reason for blended learning? I don't want blended learning so I can socialise. I want it so all students get some teaching in a safe environment and the effect of the ad hoc closures can be minimised.

Hmm, Interesting development in Austria though!

"while visiting nursing homes and hospitals could also be banned."

That's sure to go down well here.

Blended learning so schools are safer not to allow socialising! Noble hasn't called for this (blended learning).

Already not allowed to see my DC in his care home @Clavinova. Literally school for us.

If anyone, I have been an advocate for blended learning, not her.
I still think it would have been a viable solution with a few premises:

• money

-training -extra staff

all in the summer, so in sept kids/teachers don't try to figure it out, but have a system in place. but that ship has sailed.

And even blended learning can be done in multiple ways.

Atm I'm hopeful to have a suspended status introduced for us who don't want to send kid in, but don't want to lose the place either. Obv. this should come with some form of compensation so schools are not pressured to fill the headcount in order to get their projected budget.

Has anyone suggested that as the reason for blended learning?

They don't need to suggest it - but I don't think we can justify blended learning in areas where groups of school staff are able to socialise together in bars and restaurants - i.e. in tier 1 areas.

@Clavinova I agree. Further mitigations in tier 1 like masks in classrooms and blended learning in Tier 2 and tier 3 definitely.

@CallmeAngelina

Hmm, Interesting development in Austria though!

I was just coming on here to say that schools in Austria have moved to online learning. Kurz says they have 10 times as many infections as they'd ideally like. Various other restrictions too, non-essential retail closed, close contact services closed etc. Childcare open though (I think).

The tiers aren’t working. In Bristol we are in tier one, our rates are going through the roof, we’ve got 1200 kids self isolating now... I went in on my day off Yesterday to teach year 11 physics- I usually teach philosophy and ethics!!

It’s just tedious to see the same threads come up over and over again when I believe that the majority of those on here and certainly those not on Mumsnet want schools to stay open for both primary and secondary school pupils.

Tedious for you perhaps, but as a teacher who is concerned about the rising cases in schools, these threads are vital for my well-being.

They let me know I’m not alone in my concerns. They justify the choices I make to do, or not do, certain tasks in school. They inform me as to what I should be asking of my SMT and the measures other schools are taking compared to my own.

So, if these threads are tedious to you, then fee free to pass them by. For some of us who have to work in a school environment, these threads are informative and vital.

Well, I suppose if you're determined to believe that schools are safe and nothing to do with the rising infection rates then yes, I can see how seeing thread titles about the actual state of affairs from those who know, must be rather galling.

I completely agree DBML

I’m suggesting that your linked article refers to primary teachers when the pp mentioned secondary teachers seeing rising infections. I’m quite sure you would point out a similar discrepancy, Clavinova if you came across one in a post.

"research, carried out by the NASUWT" ...
"reveals that 80 per cent [of supply teachers in their survey] were not able to secure any supply teaching work between March and the end of the previous school year"

Some savings here then;
"The amount spent by maintained schools on supply teachers for 2018/19 was in excess of £550 million."

"The figure for academy schools for the period 2018-19 was in excess of £199 million."

@NullcovoidNovember

I don't understand why it's so hard to put mandatory stuff out.

Every half hour, have all windows and doors open and get students up and maybe out.

A door need to be opened to draw the air thru.

Have visors, try and stagger learning.

I'd love to see some of the people who write these guild lines try and implement them on stroppy, bored, non compliant teens

I see your point, and I agree about the importance of ventilation, but there may be difficulties with, for example, propping open fire doors.

Quite apart from how to manage the cold in the British winter.

We've spent our supply budget until April Clav.

We may have saved but the summer term is traditionally lower cost supply wise due to gain time staff being used for cover. Won't happen this year though as exams are later so gained time is tiny.

Our fire doors are all propped open at the moment and the Risk Assessment has been amended to show this. They have to be closed when the building is empty, however.

CarrieBlue
I’m quite sure you would point out a similar discrepancy, Clavinova if you came across one in a post.

I didn't think secondary school teachers were a different breed to primary school teachers. Do you think they are less sociable? If anything, primary school teachers appear to have more complaints about their workload - which might indicate they have less time to socialise.