Secondary schools are fucked, BOFFINS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

Latest ONS random sampling data shows that secondary school children in Y7-11 are now the age group with the highest infection rate in England, overtaking sixth form and university students.

In Wales "Schoolchildren are more likely to catch and spread coronavirus than previously thought, experts have warned... It was also discovered that while children were far more likely to be asymptomatic and not become seriously unwell, they were more likely to be the first positive case in any household."

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/schoolchildren-more-likely-catch-spread-19275959?fbclid=IwAR0kpoikv0D_nkwHx3lVyQX_cyDj6Ycy1d6gE3aRx6syxUKzFQsYzMDSqPw

English boffins are a bit slower on the uptake though
"SAGE’s report found that prevalence of Covid-19 in school-age children had “risen significantly” in the first wave, and that the rise in prevalence was “first visible around the time that schools reopened”.

However, it said that while this “may be indicative of a potential role for school opening, causation, including the extent to which transmission is occurring in schools, is unproven and difficult to establish”.

schoolsweek.co.uk/child-infection-rate-rise-began-when-schools-reopened-but-direct-link-unproven-says-sage/

It must indeed be difficult to establish whether there's transmission in a high risk environment where kids are packed in like sardines with no mitigation measures. A real head-scratcher. Especially if you spent the whole summer insisting that it would be fine because the kids are facing forward.

What do we want? Well, one of the major teaching unions has called on the government to:

1. Demonstrate that they are following the scientific evidence and advice.
2. Strengthen the guidance to schools and colleges on ensuring COVID-safe and COVID-secure working practices.
3. Secure the updating and publication of health and safety risk assessments and equality impact assessments by school and college employers.
4. Publish weekly data on positive cases of COVID-19 infections of school/college staff and pupils by local government area
5. Ramp up inspection and enforcement measures in schools and colleges, including more comprehensive use of spot checks and visits by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE).
6. Take swift action to protect public health in the event of an outbreak.
7. Protect vulnerable teachers and support staff and pupils.
8. Strengthen the guidance to insist on effective social distancing in schools/colleges.
9. Establish a national plan for remote education/blended and distance learning.

10. Provide significant additional financial support for schools and colleges urgently to ensure the safety of staff and pupils, including extra funding for cleaning, personal protective equipment (PPE) and supply teachers

www.nasuwt.org.uk/article-listing/plan-to-keep-schools-safe-during-pandemic.html

Oh OP I knew this would be you yadayada...yeah that's why I chose the same thread title as before etc etc.

Why do we need another thread blah blah: it's because secondary school kids are now infected at the highest rates in the country. This has implications for lockdown. How effective will it be if the most infected subset of the population are mixing freely? And it's also the first hint from scientists that they might have been wrong about exactly how safe schools are. There's also a strong suggestion that kids are bringing the virus home from school which parents should be aware of.

It's also causing chaos in schools, but there's another thread about that.

@Clavinova

CarrieBlue I’m quite sure you would point out a similar discrepancy, Clavinova if you came across one in a post.

I didn't think secondary school teachers were a different breed to primary school teachers. Do you think they are less sociable? If anything, primary school teachers appear to have more complaints about their workload - which might indicate they have less time to socialise.

I don't think there's anything to be gained at all from even attempting to compare the two - too many variables.

We've spent our supply budget until April Clav.

Obviously some schools didn't;

"Exclusive:1/4 supply teachers forced to skimp on food."

"Survey reveals despair of supply teachers in pandemic as work dries up."

"The research, carried out by the NASUWT teaching union, also reveals that 23 per cent have been forced to take other jobs outside of teaching, mostly on lower pay, since the pandemic struck."

Are you suggesting that teaching staff should have a different set of rules on socialising compared to the rest of the population? @Clavinova

Surely teachers and school staff should be free to do whatever they please in accordance with the restrictions of the area they live in. So if in tier 1 they could meet with up to 6 people and abide with distancing rules.

@Clavinova

CarrieBlue I’m quite sure you would point out a similar discrepancy, Clavinova if you came across one in a post.

I didn't think secondary school teachers were a different breed to primary school teachers. Do you think they are less sociable? If anything, primary school teachers appear to have more complaints about their workload - which might indicate they have less time to socialise.

Primary is very different to teach and died attract a different type of teacher I think. I’d also be surprised if primary are working more hours than secondary teachers at the moment. Nonetheless, one article about one group of primary staff socialising doesn’t negate the fact that secondary staff know infection rates are rising in secondary schools

mrshoho
Are you suggesting that teaching staff should have a different set of rules on socialising compared to the rest of the population?

"noble: the head in that case admitted the staff hadn’t broken any rules."

"me: That's fair enough, but we can't now justify schools in tier 1, for example, having blended learning (primary or secondary schools) to facilitate groups of adults socialising outside of school (school staff or not). Education must take priority."

We've spent our supply budget until April Clav.

Obviously some schools didn't;

No I mean this year, since September, due to staff absence due to coronavirus. Obviously we have to get people in, so we'll overspend on that. Nothing else we can do.

CarrieBlue primary staff are also very aware of infection rates rising. Staff I know are being very careful and avoiding each other where possible in school. There are foolish people in every profession but don't tar us all with the same brush.

Oh Clav! I’d like to say I missed your ‘without context’ links and copy and paste posts but reading your recent posts, I don’t anymore!

I’m not sure why people’s lived experiences are always not accepted by you? However, you will never change and so I think I might pour myself a glass and sit back!

Cheers Clav!

Are you suggesting that teaching staff should have a different set of rules on socialising compared to the rest of the population?

Although in fact, Taiwan did impose separate restrictions on teachers earlier in the year regarding overseas travel, and we know how all those experts criticising the government like saying we should copy countries such as South Korea and Taiwan.

@lonelyplanet

CarrieBlue primary staff are also very aware of infection rates rising. Staff I know are being very careful and avoiding each other where possible in school. There are foolish people in every profession but don't tar us all with the same brush.

No tarring from me - the virus doesn’t make distinctions

ChloeDecker
Cheers Clav!

Funnily enough, I'm just popping out to buy some more wine - we've run out.

"we know how all those experts criticising the government like saying we should copy countries such as South Korea and Taiwan."

Like who? I don't recall anyone on here (if that's what you mean) suggesting that.

Our Head has today emailed parents to tell them that year groups will be closing from next week on a rota basis. We have run out of staff. So that plan went well.

@Clavinova

ChloeDecker Cheers Clav!

Funnily enough, I'm just popping out to buy some more wine - we've run out.

Sacrilege! That has to be fixed right away!

@mumsneedwine

What does that mean in reality?

@OverTheRainbow88 not sure at moment. But from details we have year 7 not in Monday, 8 Tuesday, 9 Weds and then he will see where we are with staffing. However this depends on how many more staff call in on Monday - we currently have 27 off isolating or positive and several shielding. That's on top of a few who have other illnesses. So is any more call in turn year 8 will be off Monday too. So I'm spending my weekend setting work on line - thankfully we spent all summer writing stuff so should only take 3/4 hours.

@mumsneedwine

Are they aiming to keep exam classes in full time then?

Professor Tim Spector, of King’s College London, said “We need to start telling people what are the key symptoms at different ages rather than the blanket obsession with fever, cough and lack of smell.” In the King’s College study of the children diagnosed with Covid-19 who had symptoms, 55% had fatigue, 54% had a headache, and almost half had a fever. Sore throats were present in around 38% of the children, 35% skipped meals, 15% had an unusual skin rash and 13% had diarrhoea. Around half did not have any of the main symptoms listed by the NHS. Professor Spector says teachers and parents should be aware of these symptoms and students should stay off school with them. Some of the symptoms overlap with those for colds. The Queen’s University Belfast team have also studied the impact of the virus on children and found that diarrhoea, vomiting and abdominal cramps in children could be a sign of coronavirus. Both these studies found that children were not badly affected by the virus. An evidence summary of paediatric Covid-19 literature conducted in April 2020 by Munro, Boast and Goldstein found that “Children’s symptoms vary slightly from those seen in adults and tend to be milder. Cough or fever are observed in only around half of symptomatic children, less often than in adults. In contrast, upper respiratory symptoms such as a runny nose or sore throat occur in 30-40% and diarrhoea and/or vomiting are found in around 10% (sometimes this is the only symptom), more often than in adults.”

The World Health Organisation lists a wide range of symptoms and many other countries test for a wider range of symptoms than the UK does. These symptoms include fever, dry cough, tiredness, aches and pains, sore throat, diarrhoea, conjunctivitis, headache, loss of taste or smell, a rash on skin or discolouration of fingers or toes.

All these symptoms need to be taken more
Seriously not just the ‘main 3’ our gov obsess over especially when dealing with kids

I'm part of a vaccine trial. The list of symptoms that I need to report to trigger a test is much bigger than the three.

Fire doors should be opened at least for a short time each day.. To move the air.

Mrs hamlet.... What are they!

Professor Tim Spector, of King’s College London, said “We need to start telling people what are the key symptoms at different ages rather than the blanket obsession with fever, cough and lack of smell.”

Teachers on Mumsnet have been saying that since September. Usually shut down as being scaremongers.
A lot of our pupils who have tested positive have only had upset stomachs.
There is a reason why children are being discouraged from being tested, by the gov.

@OverTheRainbow88 yes exam classes will not be shut unless they have a positive case. And then only close contacts. Our current position is because we have several positive cases in staff and their families (many are their children at other schools). We had none up until Tuesday last week. Several students also now positive. It's v v scary.

@NullcovoidNovember
Sudden fatigue
Sudden muscle ache
Headache for 48 hours or more
Acute sore throat
Acute runny nose
Acute congestion
Vomiting, diarrhoea or nausea for 48 hours or more
Plus the big three

but we can't now justify schools in tier 1, for example, having blended learning (primary or secondary schools) to facilitate groups of adults socialising outside of school (school staff or not). Education must take priority."

Teachers are education. Our mental health is important. Being able to see friends and family - if that is what everyone else is doing - is as important for us as it is for anyone else. You can’t scream at us for months about all those vulnerable children but forget we too have vulnerabilities. I haven’t seen any friends in person since I started back in September and I am really struggling now.

@Crownofthorns

You, again 🙄

Why don’t you drop the pretence that you don’t want schools to close, when the plethora of threads with ‘data’ you have started demonstrate exactly the opposite?

My daughter goes to a small - medium-sized state primary and there hasn’t been ONE confirmed Covid case. Not a single one. And I know this for a fact from sources close to the school staff/governors. I appreciate that we are in the minority, but clearly there are schools with very few cases/no cases.

It would be a disaster for schools to close and yet - objectively, my own feelings as a parent aside - that is probably what would need to happen in large swathes of the country to properly reduce the spread. But its not going to happen, for all the reasons we already know about. Prioritising our children’s education and mental health simply has to come above anything else.

Sad to see that any dissenting voices on this thread (voices of reason?) are so swiftly silenced, either by MNHQ or by other posters. I fully expect that this will be deleted. There seems to be an agenda on here and anyone who disagrees is either ridiculed or silenced.

When you post bullshit don't complain if it's deleted or challenged.

No one wants schools to close, but they are closing. Everyone wants safer schools, except maybe you.